Best bible verse to quote to Christian.
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01-09-2013, 01:09 PM
RE: Best bible verse to quote to Christian.
(31-08-2013 08:01 PM)excubitor Wrote:  there are some traditional Catholics that reject Vatican 2 but not all.
<snip>

This is real but I was speaking about you because you're a YEC.
Yes some traditional catholics don't reject V2 (opus dei).

About the flood. What do you say about the "points in common" that this myth have with the "Epic of Gilgamesh" ?
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01-09-2013, 03:48 PM
 
RE: Best bible verse to quote to Christian.
(28-08-2013 01:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  If you think God is horrendous and terrible then all the more reason to worship him otherwise you will suffer his judgements. God is horrendous and terrible to sinners when he comes to punish and judge in his wrath. There is no escaping or denying this. But those who worship him in spirit and in truth find him to be pure Love, unfathomable unending love, with mercy, patience. Ready to forgive and very slow to come to anger.

Sounds like an abusive husband or father.

(28-08-2013 01:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  All you have to look forward to is the ominous day of your death when you will face the prospect of his terrors and judgements. Don't you fear the agonies of hell for your sins?

I used to, until I realized that hell is a fabrication that evolved over time, and that the doctrine of sin is a myth.

(28-08-2013 01:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Many evade this fear by denying that God exists. But in their hearts they are troubled and as the day of their death approaches their fear and anxiety grows.

Some people are indeed troubled because people like you brainwashed them and instilled those fears in them while they were children. And for some, it may take even psychotherapy to recover from such traumas. Shame that nobody is being held responsible for centuries of psychological warfare against the common man.

(28-08-2013 01:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  What an awful way to live.

What is awful is to live watching your every footstep, fearing that you will experience the bad side of your abusive Father.

(30-08-2013 08:15 PM)southernbelle Wrote:  This one isn't particularly absurd or horrible, but it is the Bible verse that got me really questioning religion (I stumbled upon it in the 4th grade after about a year of questions that I tried to ignore).

Gensis 6:3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.”

It reveals an innumerable amount of problems. If man may only live to be a hundred and twenty years old, why does the Bible mention those who live to be five hundred years old? And why were people able to live to five hundred years prior to that when the oldest person we know of with all of our medical advances is 122 and a half years old? Speaking of that, if God said people may only live to be one hundred and twenty years old, why do we have record of someone living longer than that? The Bible is supposed to be the word of God right, so everything should be fact, shouldn't it? So if the Bible was wrong, that means it's not the word of God. And if it's not the word of God, then everything it says might be false. And there might not be a God. Oh my goodness . . .

Basically my thought process in the fourth grade. That one Bible quote managed to truly shake my faith. Ironically, I stumbled across it at Bible camp.

We have historical records of Egyptian pharaohs that suggest they lived normal lifespans, like we do today.
Yet the Bible claims that, at the same time, Israelites lived several hundred years.
Who will bet with me that it's bullshit? Smile
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02-09-2013, 11:18 AM
RE: Best bible verse to quote to Christian.
(01-09-2013 03:48 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  
(30-08-2013 08:15 PM)southernbelle Wrote:  This one isn't particularly absurd or horrible, but it is the Bible verse that got me really questioning religion (I stumbled upon it in the 4th grade after about a year of questions that I tried to ignore).

Gensis 6:3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.”

It reveals an innumerable amount of problems. If man may only live to be a hundred and twenty years old, why does the Bible mention those who live to be five hundred years old? And why were people able to live to five hundred years prior to that when the oldest person we know of with all of our medical advances is 122 and a half years old? Speaking of that, if God said people may only live to be one hundred and twenty years old, why do we have record of someone living longer than that? The Bible is supposed to be the word of God right, so everything should be fact, shouldn't it? So if the Bible was wrong, that means it's not the word of God. And if it's not the word of God, then everything it says might be false. And there might not be a God. Oh my goodness . . .

Basically my thought process in the fourth grade. That one Bible quote managed to truly shake my faith. Ironically, I stumbled across it at Bible camp.

We have historical records of Egyptian pharaohs that suggest they lived normal lifespans, like we do today.
Yet the Bible claims that, at the same time, Israelites lived several hundred years.
Who will bet with me that it's bullshit? Smile

I'd agree that it's total bullshit that they could live hundreds of years. There is no possible way that their lifespans could exceed today's by such a gigantic margin, especially considering that cutting edge medical science included leeches and bloodletting, and that is was common to die from an infection or an abscessed tooth. They knew nothing of germs, bacteria, or viruses.

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02-09-2013, 12:11 PM
RE: Best bible verse to quote to Christian.
(31-08-2013 09:40 PM)excubitor Wrote:  to argue that we must accept everything in modern science because some aspects of science benefit is an erroneous construct. there is a higher authority than science. it is scripture and the teachings of the church throughout all the ages. nobody really understands science which relates to origins. I have seen many cases where scientific findings which threaten the conventional teachings of science have been decried by "greater' scientists who disparage the techniques and findings of the scientist even to the point of destroying reputations and denying grants. the so called peer review system is nothing short of scientific censorship where the cleaners are brought in to protect the status quo. modern science is an industry like any other and the establishment is not there to advance creative thinking. it is there to protect its market share. endless theory must be piled on to endless theory to prop up the creaking house of cards of modern evolution geology and cosmology.it is truly astonishing the nonsense that people accept in order to displace god. to say that dolphins evolved from a small hippo to renter the water lose its legs grow fins and move is breathing apparatus to a hole in its back is truly absurd and take absurdity to breathtaking levels
(31-08-2013 08:51 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I sometimes wonder how such delusional people get through life, simultaneously avowedly denying their superficial misunderstanding of modern science, and yet relying utterly on its results for every facet of their lives.

Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a thing.

(31-08-2013 09:59 PM)excubitor Wrote:  I'm using my smart phone to type so I could not be bothered with punctuation sorry. what I think is of huge importance to me personally because I am a free thinking and independent person. I refuse to concede that the ultimate authority is the consensus of scientists. the scripture and the teachings of the ancient church down through the ages is the ultimate authority. you are mistaken. the concencus of modern science does not have a religious bone in its body. it is anti scripture anti church anti god. it has a glaring and biased agenda to displace god therefore deserves to be viewed with extreme suspicion.
(31-08-2013 09:44 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Have you heard of punctuation? But no matter.

What you personally think to be either reasonable or not is immaterial. That's not how consensus works.

There are millions of scientists whose religious beliefs do not conflict with reality. What is their deal?
So how do reconcile these two statements of yours? You argue that we can accept certain branches of science yet in the next you claim that the agreement among scientists is not an authority and that it is biased against religion (specifically your religion). If we go by your first post, it seems that it is fine to use the benefits of science except those that pose a problem to your church. By the second, all scientists are in league against the church. So tell me, why is it acceptable for you to use a smartphone, the internet, or any public facility that uses technology created from scientific facts determined by scientific consensus? For that matter, why live in a house built from equipment that uses technology discovered in that way? Why use medical knowledge to treat disease based on a modern scientific understanding of evolution (should you or an acquaintance have such problems)? You can't just say that scientific consensus has an agenda and then embrace those facts that don't directly conflict with your ideals.
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02-09-2013, 11:14 PM
RE: Best bible verse to quote to Christian.
(02-09-2013 12:11 PM)Cake Wrote:  
(31-08-2013 09:40 PM)excubitor Wrote:  to argue that we must accept everything in modern science because some aspects of science benefit is an erroneous construct. there is a higher authority than science. it is scripture and the teachings of the church throughout all the ages. nobody really understands science which relates to origins. I have seen many cases where scientific findings which threaten the conventional teachings of science have been decried by "greater' scientists who disparage the techniques and findings of the scientist even to the point of destroying reputations and denying grants. the so called peer review system is nothing short of scientific censorship where the cleaners are brought in to protect the status quo. modern science is an industry like any other and the establishment is not there to advance creative thinking. it is there to protect its market share. endless theory must be piled on to endless theory to prop up the creaking house of cards of modern evolution geology and cosmology.it is truly astonishing the nonsense that people accept in order to displace god. to say that dolphins evolved from a small hippo to renter the water lose its legs grow fins and move is breathing apparatus to a hole in its back is truly absurd and take absurdity to breathtaking levels

(31-08-2013 09:59 PM)excubitor Wrote:  I'm using my smart phone to type so I could not be bothered with punctuation sorry. what I think is of huge importance to me personally because I am a free thinking and independent person. I refuse to concede that the ultimate authority is the consensus of scientists. the scripture and the teachings of the ancient church down through the ages is the ultimate authority. you are mistaken. the concencus of modern science does not have a religious bone in its body. it is anti scripture anti church anti god. it has a glaring and biased agenda to displace god therefore deserves to be viewed with extreme suspicion.
So how do reconcile these two statements of yours? You argue that we can accept certain branches of science yet in the next you claim that the agreement among scientists is not an authority and that it is biased against religion (specifically your religion). If we go by your first post, it seems that it is fine to use the benefits of science except those that pose a problem to your church. By the second, all scientists are in league against the church. So tell me, why is it acceptable for you to use a smartphone, the internet, or any public facility that uses technology created from scientific facts determined by scientific consensus? For that matter, why live in a house built from equipment that uses technology discovered in that way? Why use medical knowledge to treat disease based on a modern scientific understanding of evolution (should you or an acquaintance have such problems)? You can't just say that scientific consensus has an agenda and then embrace those facts that don't directly conflict with your ideals.
The science that goes into my smartphone is not contrary to the divine scriptures and therefore is not a lie. The science that explains the origins of the heavens and earth, living creatures, geology IS contrary to the divine scriptures and is therefor not a lie.

Not all science is evil. I am addressing here the science of origins which is basically a crock of lies which is opposed to the divinely revealed truth from God.
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02-09-2013, 11:16 PM
RE: Best bible verse to quote to Christian.
(01-09-2013 03:48 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 01:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  If you think God is horrendous and terrible then all the more reason to worship him otherwise you will suffer his judgements. God is horrendous and terrible to sinners when he comes to punish and judge in his wrath. There is no escaping or denying this. But those who worship him in spirit and in truth find him to be pure Love, unfathomable unending love, with mercy, patience. Ready to forgive and very slow to come to anger.

Sounds like an abusive husband or father.

(28-08-2013 01:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  All you have to look forward to is the ominous day of your death when you will face the prospect of his terrors and judgements. Don't you fear the agonies of hell for your sins?

I used to, until I realized that hell is a fabrication that evolved over time, and that the doctrine of sin is a myth.

(28-08-2013 01:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Many evade this fear by denying that God exists. But in their hearts they are troubled and as the day of their death approaches their fear and anxiety grows.

Some people are indeed troubled because people like you brainwashed them and instilled those fears in them while they were children. And for some, it may take even psychotherapy to recover from such traumas. Shame that nobody is being held responsible for centuries of psychological warfare against the common man.

(28-08-2013 01:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  What an awful way to live.

What is awful is to live watching your every footstep, fearing that you will experience the bad side of your abusive Father.

(30-08-2013 08:15 PM)southernbelle Wrote:  This one isn't particularly absurd or horrible, but it is the Bible verse that got me really questioning religion (I stumbled upon it in the 4th grade after about a year of questions that I tried to ignore).

Gensis 6:3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.”

It reveals an innumerable amount of problems. If man may only live to be a hundred and twenty years old, why does the Bible mention those who live to be five hundred years old? And why were people able to live to five hundred years prior to that when the oldest person we know of with all of our medical advances is 122 and a half years old? Speaking of that, if God said people may only live to be one hundred and twenty years old, why do we have record of someone living longer than that? The Bible is supposed to be the word of God right, so everything should be fact, shouldn't it? So if the Bible was wrong, that means it's not the word of God. And if it's not the word of God, then everything it says might be false. And there might not be a God. Oh my goodness . . .

Basically my thought process in the fourth grade. That one Bible quote managed to truly shake my faith. Ironically, I stumbled across it at Bible camp.

We have historical records of Egyptian pharaohs that suggest they lived normal lifespans, like we do today.
Yet the Bible claims that, at the same time, Israelites lived several hundred years.
Who will bet with me that it's bullshit? Smile
I think it is horseshit that you think the Bible claims that Israelites lived for several hundred years.
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03-09-2013, 12:12 AM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2013 09:16 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Best bible verse to quote to Christian.
(02-09-2013 11:14 PM)excubitor Wrote:  Not all science is evil. I am addressing here the science of origins which is basically a crock of lies which is opposed to the divinely revealed truth from God.

How do you know it's true? It's the word of God.

How do you know it's the word of God? Because the Bible says so.

And how do we know to trust the Word of God? Because the Bible says so.

And how do we know to trust the Bible?

Because it's the Word of God...



Circular reasoning is not evidence, it is not proof, and it most certainly does not validate any 'truth'. That same reasoning can be used to validate all religions, and thus it validates none of them. Please do try harder.

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03-09-2013, 03:40 AM
 
RE: Best bible verse to quote to Christian.
(02-09-2013 11:16 PM)excubitor Wrote:  I think it is horseshit that you think the Bible claims that Israelites lived for several hundred years.

Is it? Well then, enlighten me, what does the Bible claim when it says:

"Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died." (Genesis 5:5)

"Altogether, Seth lived a total of 912 years, and then he died." (Genesis 5:8)

"Altogether, Methuselah lived a total of 969 years, and then he died." (Genesis 5:27)

What could it mean, except what it plainly says.

Unless you want to say that they weren't Israelites. Well, they were ancestors of the Israelites, at least according to the Bible.
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03-09-2013, 07:57 AM
RE: Best bible verse to quote to Christian.
(02-09-2013 11:16 PM)excubitor Wrote:  I think it is horseshit that you think the Bible claims that Israelites lived for several hundred years.

Oh, really?

(31-08-2013 09:34 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Genesis 11:12-13: Arphaxad lives 438 years (born to Shem, Noah's son, two years after the flood).
His descendents (the next seven generations in that chapter alone) also live longer than 120 years.

Genesis 23:1: Sarah dies at the age of 127. This is the oldest age for a woman mentioned in the Bible.

Genesis 25:7: Abraham dies at the age of 175.

Genesis 25:17: Ishmael dies at the age of 137.

Genesis 35:28: Isaac dies at the age of 180.

Genesis 47:28: Jacob dies at the age of 147.

Even in the strictest reading (by which only Jacob is an Israelite Rolleyes ) the Bible gives an age for him that is far longer than a normal human lifetime.
And lest we forget:
(31-08-2013 09:22 PM)excubitor Wrote:  what record do we have of people living past 120 years after the flood?
This is hundreds of years after the supposed flood, according to the narrative itself.

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04-09-2013, 01:47 AM
RE: Best bible verse to quote to Christian.
(03-09-2013 03:40 AM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  
(02-09-2013 11:16 PM)excubitor Wrote:  I think it is horseshit that you think the Bible claims that Israelites lived for several hundred years.

Is it? Well then, enlighten me, what does the Bible claim when it says:

"Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died." (Genesis 5:5)

"Altogether, Seth lived a total of 912 years, and then he died." (Genesis 5:8)

"Altogether, Methuselah lived a total of 969 years, and then he died." (Genesis 5:27)

What could it mean, except what it plainly says.

Unless you want to say that they weren't Israelites. Well, they were ancestors of the Israelites, at least according to the Bible.
Obviously I want to say that they are not Israelites, because they are not. There are therefore NO examples of Israelites living hundreds of years in scripture.
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