Best points to plant the seed of doubt
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17-02-2015, 05:15 PM
RE: Best points to plant the seed of doubt
(17-02-2015 03:17 PM)DLJ Wrote:  After reading A Manual for Creating Atheists I've been focusing more on 'faith' as the target.

I had a modicum of success on Monday when a colleague told me that she has decided to read the Quran (for the first time) after, as she put it, she sensed physical pain when I questioned why she would believe something to be true with knowing the basis of those truth claims.

Great book, I have used the tools within it many times, with varying degrees of success, as each person is a different paradigm, but it is one I recommend everyone read. Thumbsup

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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05-04-2017, 08:35 AM
RE: Best points to plant the seed of doubt
Hey, my dear friends! I used to call myself an atheist like many of you may do, and so I understand where you come from! I would love to address some of these points in love and honesty. Whatever it may do, I wish you all the best <3

1. Indeed, prayer does not change the rate of events happening. God always knew what we would pray about, and our prayer itself changes nothing in this sense, wether we say it in our hearts or through words. It is through His good will it happens. I believe He shows us that it is good and OK for us to come and ask our heavenly Father for what it may be that we wish for and that it will be granted to us, not because of our good words, but because He is good and loves us. I also believe this helps strenghten our relationship to Him, and draw us closer to Him in faith and love <3

2. I think I understand what you mean <3
The ten commandments were given to Israel to lead them in the right direction. I believe it was what they needed at the time. God didn't intend it to be necessary for them but He makes the best out of bad situations. Behind the ten commandments, also known as the law, is love. For love does not hurt anyone, and has no ill will towards ones neighbour. No one will cheat, lie, steal, rape, kill or do any evil to someone they love. Though not everything is written in the ten commandments, we can understand what it is truly about, even by itself as a whole. Even so, Jesus said that the ten commandments can be summed up in two commandments: Love God with all your heart, all your soul and all your strength and love your neighbour as yourself. The first 4 commandment tells of our relationship to God, and the 6 others of our relationship to our neighbours. As we read in the New Testament, we are no longer under the law, after Jesus died for us and rose again, defeating death. The law is now written in our hearts. We all know right from wrong, because God has poured His spirit upon us. We all know of His nature, for His Spirit does not witness against itself. We know OF Him, but we can also KNOW Him if we seek Him! The Bible tells us that: "God is love". The Bible also tells us: "There is no greater law than love, for the law was written by love".

3. Jesus said: "Seek, and you shall find." God never encourages a blind faith on which nothing lies upon. In fact, the absolute contrary. God provides all that we need to believe wholeheartedly in the Truth of His word. Why search for false gods we create in our image, rather than seeking Him who is the Way, the Truth and the Life and who created us in His image? He lets Himself be known to all who searches Him with their whole heart. I personally experienced this, and it is a gift God wants everyone to enjoy! If you have this wish in your heart, but struggle with doubts and other things, don't worry <3 It will be granted to you if it is what you want. <3

With love
- A child of Jesus <3
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05-04-2017, 08:55 AM
RE: Best points to plant the seed of doubt
Another drive by.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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05-04-2017, 09:32 AM
RE: Best points to plant the seed of doubt
(05-04-2017 08:55 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Another drive by.

Yeeeeeeup.

Ignorance is not to be ignored.

Check out my DA gallery! http://oo-kiri-oo.deviantart.com/gallery/
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05-04-2017, 09:35 AM
RE: Best points to plant the seed of doubt
(05-04-2017 08:35 AM)LiveAndLove Wrote:  1. Indeed, prayer does not change the rate of events happening. God always knew what we would pray about, and our prayer itself changes nothing in this sense, wether we say it in our hearts or through words. It is through His good will it happens. I believe He shows us that it is good and OK for us to come and ask our heavenly Father for what it may be that we wish for and that it will be granted to us, not because of our good words, but because He is good and loves us. I also believe this helps strenghten our relationship to Him, and draw us closer to Him in faith and love <3
I will focus on this particular bit of muddled thinking, for lack of time (and lack of interest in the probability that you are a drive-by poster who won't actually engage, or if you do, won't actually address any points I raise, but instead will deflect).

The Bible does not exclusively teach believers to make imprecatory prayers (prayers for favors, needs to be met, things to be provided, questions to be answered) -- but it does unambiguously and explicitly (and at times rather lavishly) teach it. How do you reconcile this with the notion that prayer does not change god's mind / will / plan? I think based on what you say, you agree that imprecatory prayer is an inherently illogical and useless concept ... and yet you say, schizophrenically, that despite god having a plan and being immutable, he will grant requests to us just because he's a nice guy. Which begs the question why this nice guy didn't just do nice things to you in the first place. Nice things like not giving you cancer or killing your wife or child or, just to be topical, not allowing Assad to dump Sarin gas on you.

Maybe you want to rephrase what you said to actually be coherent and consistent. Does god grant wishes, or not? Is it necessary to ask god for basic safety and stability in some way, despite that we would consider it parental neglect / abuse to require our children to beg us for food, shelter and clothing before we give it to them? Why the dichotomy?

Let's see if you are really interested in making the effort to be coherent and consistent and having a logically defensible position on these topics or not.
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05-04-2017, 09:54 AM
RE: Best points to plant the seed of doubt
(17-02-2015 07:09 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  -There is no such thing as morality, at the end of the day all claims about good and evil, amount to no more than stating your likes and dislikes.

-A life devoted to love of others, is no more meaningful or fulfilling, than a life as part of a brotherhood of violence and chaos, like that of ISIS.

-If life is a tale, then it's one told by an idiot full of sound and fury, and signifying nothing.

- Live whatever way you desire, when you want to steal, steal, when you want lie, lie, when you want to plunder, plunder, when you want to care, care, when you want to show compassion, show compassion. Has a nice ring to it don't you think?

Sounds more like an attempt to covert someone to American christianity.
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05-04-2017, 09:58 AM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2017 10:12 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Best points to plant the seed of doubt
(05-04-2017 08:35 AM)LiveAndLove Wrote:  Jesus said: "Seek, and you shall find." God never encourages a blind faith on which nothing lies upon. In fact, the absolute contrary. God provides all that we need to believe wholeheartedly in the Truth of His word. Why search for false gods we create in our image, rather than seeking Him who is the Way, the Truth and the Life and who created us in His image? He lets Himself be known to all who searches Him with their whole heart. I personally experienced this, and it is a gift God wants everyone to enjoy! If you have this wish in your heart, but struggle with doubts and other things, don't worry <3 It will be granted to you if it is what you want. <3

I sought God for over two decades and found, in the end, that atheists were right. So "seek and you will find" isn't true.

If you mean the "Truth of His word" as written in the Bible, then I can only say almost none of it makes any sense. "God sacrificed himself to prevent himself from throwing us all into hell" -- are you kidding me?

We don't need to worship anything at all.

Anyway, it was nice of you to drive by.

Hobo
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05-04-2017, 10:02 AM
RE: Best points to plant the seed of doubt
(05-04-2017 08:35 AM)LiveAndLove Wrote:  Hey, my dear friends! I used to call myself an atheist like many of you may do, and so I understand where you come from! I would love to address some of these points in love and honesty. Whatever it may do, I wish you all the best <3

1. Indeed, prayer does not change the rate of events happening. God always knew what we would pray about, and our prayer itself changes nothing in this sense, wether we say it in our hearts or through words. It is through His good will it happens. I believe He shows us that it is good and OK for us to come and ask our heavenly Father for what it may be that we wish for and that it will be granted to us, not because of our good words, but because He is good and loves us. I also believe this helps strenghten our relationship to Him, and draw us closer to Him in faith and love <3

2. I think I understand what you mean <3
The ten commandments were given to Israel to lead them in the right direction. I believe it was what they needed at the time. God didn't intend it to be necessary for them but He makes the best out of bad situations. Behind the ten commandments, also known as the law, is love. For love does not hurt anyone, and has no ill will towards ones neighbour. No one will cheat, lie, steal, rape, kill or do any evil to someone they love. Though not everything is written in the ten commandments, we can understand what it is truly about, even by itself as a whole. Even so, Jesus said that the ten commandments can be summed up in two commandments: Love God with all your heart, all your soul and all your strength and love your neighbour as yourself. The first 4 commandment tells of our relationship to God, and the 6 others of our relationship to our neighbours. As we read in the New Testament, we are no longer under the law, after Jesus died for us and rose again, defeating death. The law is now written in our hearts. We all know right from wrong, because God has poured His spirit upon us. We all know of His nature, for His Spirit does not witness against itself. We know OF Him, but we can also KNOW Him if we seek Him! The Bible tells us that: "God is love". The Bible also tells us: "There is no greater law than love, for the law was written by love".

3. Jesus said: "Seek, and you shall find." God never encourages a blind faith on which nothing lies upon. In fact, the absolute contrary. God provides all that we need to believe wholeheartedly in the Truth of His word. Why search for false gods we create in our image, rather than seeking Him who is the Way, the Truth and the Life and who created us in His image? He lets Himself be known to all who searches Him with their whole heart. I personally experienced this, and it is a gift God wants everyone to enjoy! If you have this wish in your heart, but struggle with doubts and other things, don't worry <3 It will be granted to you if it is what you want. <3

With love
- A child of Jesus <3

You called yourself an atheist once. I called myself a genius. We're were both deluded and/or lying.

What made you believe?
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05-04-2017, 10:05 AM
RE: Best points to plant the seed of doubt
(05-04-2017 08:35 AM)LiveAndLove Wrote:  Hey, my dear friends! I used to call myself an atheist like many of you may do, and so I understand where you come from!

You lost me right there.

You may have called yourself an atheist, but I strongly doubt that anyone who has debunked religion would write the unsubstantiated drivel that follows.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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05-04-2017, 10:17 AM
Best points to plant the seed of doubt
(17-02-2015 06:51 AM)microterf Wrote:  1. There is no secondary statistical probability for people who pray. Everything happens to everyone at the same rate. Only your actions change the outcome.
God shows mercy even to heathens.
Quote:2. The ten commandments. If it were written by God, there would be something about rape and slavery, instead they read just like priorities of the time period they were written.
There is something about rape and slavery. God encouraged it. That was OT times though, doesn't count now cuz of the new covenant.
Quote:3. Why aren't you muslim, hindu, or anything else? If faith (belief without evidence) is the reason you believe, then why don't you give them fair shake? How much sleep have you lost that they are right, and you are wrong?

Because Jesus rose from the dead. That makes it all different and proves that Christianity is the one true religion.


Try this. Why doesn't God heal amputees?
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