Bibi is a cunt.
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23-03-2015, 05:25 PM
RE: Bibi is a cunt.
(23-03-2015 11:46 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  
(23-03-2015 11:24 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  I support a western style society. I do not support a Jewish based Constitution. It is still government setting up religious/or race if they want to do that, social pecking orders. It is about religion, and I am sick of Jews claiming it is not.

Zionism is not about religion, despite the claims of the ignorant. Herzl (source), considered the founder of Zionism, was an atheist who abhorred circumcision. David Ben-Gurion, the founder of Israel, was an atheist (source). Golda Meir, the Iron Lady of Israel, was an atheist (source). The current Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu is secular (source) (although not necessarily an atheist). What has to be understood is that Jews are a ethnoreligious group. When the Israeli constitution says that Israel is a "Jewish state" it is referring to the ethnic and national character of the state, not to the religion of Judaism.

And you say that you support a Western-style society, that is exactly what Israel is. That is not to say that there are not those in Israel who support a theocracy (The Jewish Home for example), but America has these fanatical types as well, and is still a Western-style society. Israel does not have a social pecking order, Arabs share the same rights as Jews. Arabs serve in the parliament, the supreme court and are eligible for any position open to Jews in Israeli society. The two official languages of Israel are Hebrew and Arabic.

I don't give a fuck how nice you say they are to non Jews, that attitude is the same reason it took JFK to get elected and why it took blacks forever to gain ground in politics and why Keith Ellison a Muslim took forever to get elected to our congress. Now please tell me what are the chances of an Arab or non Jew to get elected Prime Mister of Israel? The same chances an atheist wont get elected President here. Having others in lower spots is TOKEN status. You have to be willing as a society to put ANYONE as a voter at the top spot, and not base it on Zion Jew, Muslim or skin color. "Jewish State" is because of the Hebrew religion starting. Just like there is no chance of a Jew being elected PM of Iran.

Not ignorant at all, Zion, Jew, all of those code words exist because the Hebrew religion was started. Same stupid crap Muslims pull switching between race and religion.

If neither Hebrew or Islam were started none of this shit would be happening now. Of course if neither had been started others would have been started in their places. Still no excuse for either side. Race is used by both sides, then when they cant use that they use "ethic" then when they cant do that they use "culture. "

The fact Israel is more westernized does not mean they are not basing their laws on social pecking orders. Both sides claim that there was peace prior, but when you look at the entirety of both religions together, even prior to 48, that land has changed power multiple times back to wen Islam was started.

And who gives a fuck anyway. Zion Jew whatever, there were still humans occupying that land even prior to the Hebrews.

This IS about religion. One side being more watered down does not change that. Zionism is part of Hebrew. In tern interjecting religion into politics will cause rivals to not like them. On the other side you have mostly Muslims being backed up by other Muslims. They do not like each other because the entire region is set on religious based politics. BOTH SIDES.

Now tell me why Netenyahu would promise to base the nations laws on a Jewish Text the Talmud if it was intended on being secular with no social pecking order?

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180440

Zion stems from the idea that Jews have a promised land. That is no different an attitude when Muslims talk about their religious states or when Christians say "Christian Nation". All three of them started in that same region so please don't tell me the beefs between all three don't drive their politics.

This is not about race, or ethnic this is about RELIGION.

"Jewish state" is not ethic it is religious. No different than Islamic state other than having a longer history of being westernized.

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23-03-2015, 05:35 PM
RE: Bibi is a cunt.
It is a social pecking order. Electing tokens does not mean you are willing to put them in the top spot. How much chance do you think a Jew or Black or Hindu would have at becoming PM of China? Humans are tribal and when we set up our social order we are certainly capable of sharing, but only up to a certain point.

Real sharing is when you leave race and religion out of ALL politics. Now WE in America have pluralism in government too, but all of our presidents have been Christian and up Until Obama have all been white. So I am sure you "tollerate" non Jews up until a certain point, but Jews won't put them at PM, that is a social pecking order. Treating minorities like pets our house guests isn't equality, it is tokenism.

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23-03-2015, 06:09 PM
RE: Bibi is a cunt.
(23-03-2015 01:02 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  
(23-03-2015 05:56 AM)BnW Wrote:  Why is Palestinians in quotes? Are they just pretending to be Palestinians?

Because there were no Palestinian people before the 1967 war.

Until then the people living there were simply called Arabs and were either ruled by Jordan or Egypt. Palestinians as a people were created once Jordan and Egypt renounced their claims to any land in the region.

That's a stretch don't ya think?
What you name the people is irrelevant. Arabs or Palestinians it doesn't matter.
All that matters is a bunch of "Arabs" were living in the region, whether they were Egyptian or Jordanian or Ottoman is irrelevant and than the Allies went "yip, the Jews can have that land" and so the Jews culturally took it over.

To say that the local "Arabs" don't have a claim simply because there was no "Palestinian" label at the time is fucking retarded.

You make it sound like the Jews are doing the "Arabs" a favor by gifting them their own damn land back... Here, I'll take your house and land, but if you want you can still live in the guest bedroom.

I support Israel too but only because I'd rather a Jewish friendly state than a Muslim friendly (and especially a Muslim un-friendly) state in the middle east. I also believe that the Jews living there today are mostly second/third generation and so it's not their fault they were born into that situation and so you can't simply kick them out and give the land back to the "Arabs". I don't support Israel because I believe they have some ridiculous claim to the land that dates back a couple hundred/thousand years when the Babylonians were still around. That's ridiculous.

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23-03-2015, 06:20 PM
RE: Bibi is a cunt.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/netanyahu-apo...b_lastword

He used the same scare tactics White Christian politicians use with Obama. It is about religion.

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23-03-2015, 06:23 PM
RE: Bibi is a cunt.
(23-03-2015 05:24 PM)BnW Wrote:  Make up a grievance? They lived there. They lost their land and were forced out. That's not a made up grievance. That actually did happen. And now they live in a country where they are 2nd class citizens. That is not a made up grievance either. What the fuck are you talking about?

There were 3 attempts to make peace before 1990.

First the jews got 20 percent of the land and the Arab the rest.
Second the jews were offerd a quarter of the land and the Arabs the rest.
Third the jews had gained half the land and the Arabs the rest.

Each time the jews accepted the offer made by UN and Brits for this land arrangement and each time the Arabs did not only refuse it but also emidiatly declare war and vowed to kill all jews. Under the first 2 agreements the jews would have even gotten land that didnt include a single Arab settlement.

But still. The Arabs and some naiv fools spread the myth of stolen land, agression and occupation.
The first step to peace really has to be the Arabs acknowleging their faults. the Israelis already acknowleged their mistakes in the Olso accords and it didnt bring any helpfull reaction by the Arabs whatsoever.

Quote:As for the lying, while it is true there are terrorists among them, not all those people are terrorists. But, all of them are paying a price for the acts of a few. That's not a lie either. It's a documented fact.





Now imagine what goes on on their streets when a bomb goes off in a pizza parlor in Tel Aviv.

If anything is to be learned from the past 30 years it is that one religion is decisively more violent and toxic than others and that this disease of violence is widespread throughout the entire muslim world and muslim population.

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23-03-2015, 06:26 PM
RE: Bibi is a cunt.
Stop the Jew Arab crap, both make it about race it is a great bait and switch to avoid the fact both Jews and Muslims think their sky hero gave them land rights.

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23-03-2015, 06:30 PM
RE: Bibi is a cunt.
Again, one being more westernized does not take away the fact both are really basing this on sky hero land entitlement. I only support Israel more because it is more westernized. But that does not mean they are not basing the land grabs on Yahweh. BOTH sides are fighting over their gods. Ironically the same god.

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23-03-2015, 06:31 PM
RE: Bibi is a cunt.
(23-03-2015 06:09 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  That's a stretch don't ya think?
What you name the people is irrelevant. Arabs or Palestinians it doesn't matter.
All that matters is a bunch of "Arabs" were living in the region, whether they were Egyptian or Jordanian or Ottoman is irrelevant and than the Allies went "yip, the Jews can have that land" and so the Jews culturally took it over.

And what you are missing from that equasion is that the Arabs replied not with a "No you cant have it" but with a "KILL ALL JEWS".

And in some occasions with a "Jews to the gas":

[Image: Amin_al_Husseini_grand_mufti_and_Adolf_Hitler.jpg]
Quote:To say that the local "Arabs" don't have a claim simply because there was no "Palestinian" label at the time is fucking retarded.

I am not saying that. I am saying that the claim to a Palestinian land that supposedly used to exist, eventhough it never existed, is a lie.
Quote:You make it sound like the Jews are doing the "Arabs" a favor by gifting them their own damn land back... Here, I'll take your house and land, but if you want you can still live in the guest bedroom.

Well thats a strawman.

Quote:I support Israel too but only because I'd rather a Jewish friendly state than a Muslim friendly (and especially a Muslim un-friendly) state in the middle east. I also believe that the Jews living there today are mostly second/third generation and so it's not their fault they were born into that situation and so you can't simply kick them out and give the land back to the "Arabs". I don't support Israel because I believe they have some ridiculous claim to the land that dates back a couple hundred/thousand years when the Babylonians were still around. That's ridiculous.

I support Israel because Auschwitz was supposed to teach us a lesson.

The needs of some third world fascists who stone women to death, in general live by a mediaval code of law and can live in millions of square miles of other lands only come secondary to me in that regard.

Should the Palestinians become more humane and civilised I might give them more leeway. Otherwise, no.

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23-03-2015, 06:46 PM
RE: Bibi is a cunt.
(23-03-2015 05:35 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  ... but all of our presidents have been Christian and ...

Um, no. Some were deists and at least one was probably atheist.

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, john Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, and John Tyler were deists or arguably so.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-03-2015, 07:13 PM
RE: Bibi is a cunt.
(23-03-2015 06:31 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  
(23-03-2015 06:09 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  That's a stretch don't ya think?
What you name the people is irrelevant. Arabs or Palestinians it doesn't matter.
All that matters is a bunch of "Arabs" were living in the region, whether they were Egyptian or Jordanian or Ottoman is irrelevant and than the Allies went "yip, the Jews can have that land" and so the Jews culturally took it over.

And what you are missing from that equasion is that the Arabs replied not with a "No you cant have it" but with a "KILL ALL JEWS".

And in some occasions with a "Jews to the gas":

[Image: Amin_al_Husseini_grand_mufti_and_Adolf_Hitler.jpg]
Quote:To say that the local "Arabs" don't have a claim simply because there was no "Palestinian" label at the time is fucking retarded.

I am not saying that. I am saying that the claim to a Palestinian land that supposedly used to exist, eventhough it never existed, is a lie.
Quote:You make it sound like the Jews are doing the "Arabs" a favor by gifting them their own damn land back... Here, I'll take your house and land, but if you want you can still live in the guest bedroom.

Well thats a strawman.

Quote:I support Israel too but only because I'd rather a Jewish friendly state than a Muslim friendly (and especially a Muslim un-friendly) state in the middle east. I also believe that the Jews living there today are mostly second/third generation and so it's not their fault they were born into that situation and so you can't simply kick them out and give the land back to the "Arabs". I don't support Israel because I believe they have some ridiculous claim to the land that dates back a couple hundred/thousand years when the Babylonians were still around. That's ridiculous.

I support Israel because Auschwitz was supposed to teach us a lesson.

The needs of some third world fascists who stone women to death, in general live by a mediaval code of law and can live in millions of square miles of other lands only come secondary to me in that regard.

Should the Palestinians become more humane and civilised I might give them more leeway. Otherwise, no.

Yes and the Germans set up a social pecking order, so what lesson do Jews or blacks or Native Americans for that matter serve long term if we forget social pecking orders based on race or religion never end up well.

The lesson of the Holocaust isn't about one label hiding behind it. The lesson of the Holocaust is a lesson to ALL humans not to do that to their fellow humans, not just "don't pick on Jews".

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