Bible Archeology
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02-03-2017, 12:54 PM
RE: Bible Archeology
The only attempt I've seen by apologists to try to explain the lack of evidence in Egyptian history about the Jews is, and I'm not kidding, that "the events with Israel made them look bad so they removed all traces of it." It's a really, really bad attempt, but that's about all I've heard. The rest just act like archeology is just wrong, just like science is wrong about evolution.
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02-03-2017, 01:02 PM
RE: Bible Archeology
(02-03-2017 12:54 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  The only attempt I've seen by apologists to try to explain the lack of evidence in Egyptian history about the Jews is, and I'm not kidding, that "the events with Israel made them look bad so they removed all traces of it." It's a really, really bad attempt, but that's about all I've heard. The rest just act like archeology is just wrong, just like science is wrong about evolution.

Do they ever explain why not a single other civilization in the surrounding area noticed any of the events either? Did the Egyptians send operatives all aorund their known world to cover it all up?

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02-03-2017, 01:05 PM
RE: Bible Archeology
(02-03-2017 01:02 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 12:54 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  The only attempt I've seen by apologists to try to explain the lack of evidence in Egyptian history about the Jews is, and I'm not kidding, that "the events with Israel made them look bad so they removed all traces of it." It's a really, really bad attempt, but that's about all I've heard. The rest just act like archeology is just wrong, just like science is wrong about evolution.

Do they ever explain why not a single other civilization in the surrounding area noticed any of the events either? Did the Egyptians send operatives all aorund their known world to cover it all up?

At that point they either get glassy eyed and change the subject, denounce you as being turned by the devil, or start acting like they feel sorry for you because you "just don't get it".
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02-03-2017, 02:13 PM
RE: Bible Archeology
(02-03-2017 12:54 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  The only attempt I've seen by apologists to try to explain the lack of evidence in Egyptian history about the Jews is, and I'm not kidding, that "the events with Israel made them look bad so they removed all traces of it." It's a really, really bad attempt, but that's about all I've heard. The rest just act like archeology is just wrong, just like science is wrong about evolution.


Funny how there is no mention of the fact that the pharaoh who would have "enslaved" them in the first place did not mention that great victory on his temples or monuments. Equally funny is the fact that there is no indication of mass slavery in Egypt prior to the Greco-Roman period.

The funniest thing is that the fundies cannot even agree among themselves when all of this happy horseshit is supposed to have happened. They do need to get their ducks in a row.

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03-03-2017, 12:57 PM
RE: Bible Archeology
(02-03-2017 02:13 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 12:54 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  The only attempt I've seen by apologists to try to explain the lack of evidence in Egyptian history about the Jews is, and I'm not kidding, that "the events with Israel made them look bad so they removed all traces of it." It's a really, really bad attempt, but that's about all I've heard. The rest just act like archeology is just wrong, just like science is wrong about evolution.


Funny how there is no mention of the fact that the pharaoh who would have "enslaved" them in the first place did not mention that great victory on his temples or monuments. Equally funny is the fact that there is no indication of mass slavery in Egypt prior to the Greco-Roman period.

The funniest thing is that the fundies cannot even agree among themselves when all of this happy horseshit is supposed to have happened. They do need to get their ducks in a row.

For me that's the funniest part. It's not that there is evidence that it happened but the Bible's timeline is off or something like that, it's that there is no evidence period of Egypt ever having any kind of mass slavery during any time that could have fit within the OT narrative.

I think there is one video out there that tries to argue that it happened and goes through all these hoops of saying such and such Pharaoh was actually the one in the Bible and the Exodus story could fit in such and such time, but it's so convoluted and you have to make so many baseless assumptions that I've never seen any real archeaologist take it remotely seriously.
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03-03-2017, 01:02 PM
RE: Bible Archeology
Also as with other areas of selective logic, I've talked with believers who denounce the actual archaeology findings and pretty much take an "absence of evidence isn't evidence of abscense" type stance, and go on about how the records we find aren't necessarily reliable or complete, etc.

Which in some ways is a decent point......except at the same time they believe the OT accounts ARE 100% complete and 100% true. It's another example of selective skepticism, just like with science/evolution. Of course they also will say we know the Bible accounts are true because they are "inspired by God"....which if you're going that route you might as well just say "Magic happened, mic drop bitch".
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03-03-2017, 01:06 PM
RE: Bible Archeology
I'm more amused that the writers of the Bible story were apparently unaware that, during the time of the Pharaohs mentioned in the story (and at any point in which the account could have happened, according to their timeline), Egypt controlled the region of Canaan, clear up to the northernmost extent of where Israel would later be. They were fighting a war against the Hittites for that region, throughout most of that period, and had tens of thousands of troops stationed in the region.

Fleeing from Egypt to the "Promised Land", as depicted in the Exodus story, would have been akin to tens of thousands of people fleeing en masse from the United States and going to Alaska... while we were at war with Russia there.

By the time the Torah was written, in or just before the Exile period, Egypt no longer controlled that region, so it's understandable that they forgot something that was by then 400-500 years in the past, to them. But it's hilarious that people today would think that the story was real, when we know what we now know.

Archaeologists don't take it seriously because it's literally impossible.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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07-03-2017, 09:50 PM
RE: Bible Archeology
(03-03-2017 01:06 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I'm more amused that the writers of the Bible story were apparently unaware that, during the time of the Pharaohs mentioned in the story (and at any point in which the account could have happened, according to their timeline), Egypt controlled the region of Canaan, clear up to the northernmost extent of where Israel would later be. They were fighting a war against the Hittites for that region, throughout most of that period, and had tens of thousands of troops stationed in the region.

Fleeing from Egypt to the "Promised Land", as depicted in the Exodus story, would have been akin to tens of thousands of people fleeing en masse from the United States and going to Alaska... while we were at war with Russia there.

By the time the Torah was written, in or just before the Exile period, Egypt no longer controlled that region, so it's understandable that they forgot something that was by then 400-500 years in the past, to them. But it's hilarious that people today would think that the story was real, when we know what we now know.

Archaeologists don't take it seriously because it's literally impossible.

The two main theories now are the Gradual Emergence Theory and the Conflict Theory. The Gradual Emergence Theory says the Israelites were always in Canaan, while the Conflict Theory says the Israelites were in Canaan, went to the mountains, then returned and conquered Canaan.

I reject both theories in part, and accept both theories in part.

I have my own original theory about the Exodus. The short version of my theory is:

1] Israelites always in Canaan.

2] Patriarch (Jacob) and clan leaders traveled to Egypt during famine.

3] Upon death of Jacob, those clan leaders who were denied an inheritance (Reuben, Simeon and Levi, and possibly Benjamin) remained in Egypt, while the other clan leaders returned to Canaan

4] The clans in Egypt traded with the clans in Canaan for a time, but war and conflict, and the cost of escorting caravans resulted in a halt in trade between the two groups.

5] The two groups grew apart culturally due to the separation

6] The 3 or 4 clans in Egypt eventually left and returned to Canaan.

7] The Exodus Trilogy (Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers) is a cleverly designed National Unity Document intended to hide or downplay the fact that the tribes/clans had been separated; or to deceitfully show that the clans were always together.

The enemy numbered six hundred - including women and children - and we abolished them utterly, leaving not even a baby alive to cry for its dead mother. This is incomparably the greatest victory that was ever achieved by the Christian soldiers of the United States. -- Mark Twain
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07-03-2017, 11:25 PM
RE: Bible Archeology
Read the first page.

Idea! It's an ad for Google.

Perhaps if I say Google, they'll give me 10 Googles.

But now I've said Google again, the number rose.

I'm gonna be Googled until I'm Goggled! Blink

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08-03-2017, 11:37 AM
RE: Bible Archeology
(03-03-2017 12:57 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 02:13 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Funny how there is no mention of the fact that the pharaoh who would have "enslaved" them in the first place did not mention that great victory on his temples or monuments. Equally funny is the fact that there is no indication of mass slavery in Egypt prior to the Greco-Roman period.

The funniest thing is that the fundies cannot even agree among themselves when all of this happy horseshit is supposed to have happened. They do need to get their ducks in a row.

For me that's the funniest part. It's not that there is evidence that it happened but the Bible's timeline is off or something like that, it's that there is no evidence period of Egypt ever having any kind of mass slavery during any time that could have fit within the OT narrative.

I think there is one video out there that tries to argue that it happened and goes through all these hoops of saying such and such Pharaoh was actually the one in the Bible and the Exodus story could fit in such and such time, but it's so convoluted and you have to make so many baseless assumptions that I've never seen any real archeaologist take it remotely seriously.

More than one. Patterns of Evidence is a rehash of David Rohl's ludicrous new chronology to move Egyptian - and thus world - history down by 300 years and The Exodus Decoded by the noted fraud Simcha Jacobovici tried to move it up by about the same amount.

As real archaeologist William Dever once observed, you can move Egyptian chronology by about 20 years + or - because of overlapping reigns of pharaohs but that's about it.

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