Bible Fight!!!
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21-12-2011, 08:51 PM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2011 09:01 PM by kingschosen.)
Bible Fight!!!
Allllllrighty.

So, in this thread, I would like you, my esteemed atheistic brethren, to discuss theologies and other crap that Christians like to argue and split churches over.

Become "Christians" for this thread. Why? Because... that's what the thread is... but really, (and, you know, I really shouldn't be doing this but...) this will help you battle theists in debates. This allows you to get on their own level and use their own beliefs to debunk what they are saying. Once you disprove what they are saying with their own theology, then you won't have much work to do outside of it. A good debater can win an argument without ever revealing what he actually believes.

As for me, I want to use this as a tool to strengthen my theologies.

But as usual, there are ground rules:

1) This is a flippin' theology discussion based on the Christian belief system(s). Please adopt that mindset ie don't try and argue as an "atheist".

B) The Bible is the ultimate authority in this thread. However, if you can present a sound argument against a certain passage of scripture that it doesn't mean what it looks like it means (context, translation, etc), then you can use that approach.

VIIII) Do not try and debunk the Bible.


In my next post, I will bring up the first topic of discussion... but first... what we've all been waiting for...

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The Nephilim were very enigmatic. This thread got me thinking about them, and I believe it is a good topic for a solid Bible Fight.

This is what I said:

The Nephs were the offspring of fallen angels and human women. They also survived the flood. It is believed that the fallen angels impregnated human women to try and corrupt the Messianic line. These Nephilim were monstrosities and abominations. I believe demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. These spirits have no place in either heaven or hell, so they are cursed to wander the earth.

Demons cannot be the fallen angels because demons behave differently than angels. Angels have a body, and angels are more exalted than an earthly human. Angelic actions in the Bible show no desire to garb themselves in earthly flesh much less possess someone. Satan is shown to only influence but never to possess (which would be the best way to make a human do something). Demons, on the other hand, can take direct control of a human body – a possession. This is a trait unique to demons and completely foreign to angels.

Another thing to consider is this: Why are demons constantly looking for a body? All they want is to dwell in some type of body… it doesn’t even need to be human (Legion asked to be casts into the pigs). Why would an angel want or need a body? The Nephilim were damned from the beginning and their spirits don’t have a home until the Final Judgment when all the non-elect are cast into the Lake of Fire; therefore, their disembodied EVIL spirits continually roam the earth looking for a body.

In short, the Nephilim became demons when they died… now, how they completely died out, I don’t know… or do I know if they completely died out. We could still have Nephilim blood walking around on earth today.


What do y'all think? I believe the Book of Enoch talks about this as well... but I would have to look again. Does this seem like a solid theory?

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21-12-2011, 11:17 PM
RE: Bible Fight!!!
(21-12-2011 08:51 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  [i]The Nephs were the offspring of fallen angels and human women. They also survived the flood....

What do y'all think? I believe the Book of Enoch talks about this as well... but I would have to look again. Does this seem like a solid theory?

Seems pretty solid. Yeah, the flood came because "the sons of god came among the daughters of men", which is rather confusing language but could very well be nookie between angels and people. It also makes sense in the context of Noah being "perfect in his generations" (having no angel in his blood). On a logical basis, though, it seems strange that God would create angels with sex organs since they appear to be male and do not procreate with other angels. But how else do you interpret this phrase from the bible?

It seems silly that they'd survive the flood, though, as that was the purpose of the flood. It is reasonable to assume that angels just kept fucking humans, though, because the flood wouldn't fix this situation, merely destroy the existing lines before that point, and that could cause them to reappear after that story.

I have very little idea of what's in the book of Enoch. I know that Enoch is said to have been the go-between for God and Satan, carrying messages between them. And he went to heaven without dying. It's about time I got around to reading it.

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22-12-2011, 12:41 AM
RE: Bible Fight!!!
I played this game for 40 some years, I don't think I want to play along. But I will suggest that you ought to have one more ground rule.

Eyegore has to answer as an atheist.

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22-12-2011, 12:26 PM
RE: Bible Fight!!!
I guess it shouldn't surprise you that not many people would take you up on this. I'm not certain there are any regular posters besides myself, Erxomai, and Buddy Christ who have actually read through the bible or had a bible education. While I thought it was an interesting idea for a thread, it is best carried out on a Christian forum.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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22-12-2011, 12:29 PM
RE: Bible Fight!!!
(22-12-2011 12:26 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I guess it shouldn't surprise you that not many people would take you up on this. I'm not certain there are any regular posters besides myself, Erxomai, and Buddy Christ who have actually read through the bible or had a bible education. While I thought it was an interesting idea for a thread, it is best carried out on a Christian forum.

I agree with you on this one, I have read the bible cover to cover myself about 4 times, but Erxomai said it best. I played the christian game for 30 years. I can't put on that pocket protector and suspenders again Smile

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22-12-2011, 12:32 PM
RE: Bible Fight!!!
This:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

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22-12-2011, 12:33 PM
RE: Bible Fight!!!
(22-12-2011 12:26 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I guess it shouldn't surprise you that not many people would take you up on this. I'm not certain there are any regular posters besides myself, Erxomai, and Buddy Christ who have actually read through the bible or had a bible education. While I thought it was an interesting idea for a thread, it is best carried out on a Christian forum.

I guess you're right. I was just trying to provide something different than the usual things that are posted.

Oh well.

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22-12-2011, 01:37 PM
RE: Bible Fight!!!
(22-12-2011 12:29 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  
(22-12-2011 12:26 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I guess it shouldn't surprise you that not many people would take you up on this. I'm not certain there are any regular posters besides myself, Erxomai, and Buddy Christ who have actually read through the bible or had a bible education. While I thought it was an interesting idea for a thread, it is best carried out on a Christian forum.

I agree with you on this one, I have read the bible cover to cover myself about 4 times, but Erxomai said it best. I played the christian game for 30 years. I can't put on that pocket protector and suspenders again Smile

I was required to read through the gospels 4 times.. and then finish up the NT. Followed by reading through the OT. Jesus Bootcamp bible course 101.
Don't think I would be able to follow the rules here. sorry KC hehe.

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22-12-2011, 01:40 PM
RE: Bible Fight!!!
(22-12-2011 12:26 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I guess it shouldn't surprise you that not many people would take you up on this. I'm not certain there are any regular posters besides myself, Erxomai, and Buddy Christ who have actually read through the bible or had a bible education. While I thought it was an interesting idea for a thread, it is best carried out on a Christian forum.

I'd be shocked if everyone on this forum has not read the Bible cover to cover.

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22-12-2011, 03:17 PM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2011 03:21 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Bible Fight!!!
I'd play along with you, good thought king, really. It's great for people to try to follow the alternative view, but it's not working out and at the moment I'm not up for it. As an anthropologist though I'd be game if this discussion had gone anywhere.

Oh also, the nephilim are a really bad choice for starters. Almost none of the bible discusses them so you actually need to use extrabiblical sources to have a serious discussion on them.

My suggestion would've been Job, if you can get a bunch of atheists defending god's part in that story, then you've gotten somewhere =p

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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