Bible Translation Defense
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10-04-2014, 09:02 PM
Bible Translation Defense
I got this defense used against me in a debate earlier today:

"Well, the Bible has been translated so many times, you can't even say for sure what a particular quote originally said!"

This was a response to my mention of all the immoral bullshit in the Bible. It's a classic case of trying to get a free pass to cherry pick. Of course, by doing so they are also putting on the table that anything and everything from the Bible is questionable about what parts are translated correctly and which ones are not. If you make that claim, then you can't turn around and make the claim that the Bible is the word of your god, and therefore true, because your god is infallible. By this logic, the perfection has now been poisoned and there is no cleaning it up again. So, if that is the case, then why should anything from the Bible be considered to be divine?

Has anybody else had this used against them as well?

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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10-04-2014, 09:13 PM
RE: Bible Translation Defense
(10-04-2014 09:02 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  I got this defense used against me in a debate earlier today:

"Well, the Bible has been translated so many times, you can't even say for sure what a particular quote originally said!"

This was a response to my mention of all the immoral bullshit in the Bible. It's a classic case of trying to get a free pass to cherry pick. Of course, by doing so they are also putting on the table that anything and everything from the Bible is questionable about what parts are translated correctly and which ones are not. If you make that claim, then you can't turn around and make the claim that the Bible is the word of your god, and therefore true, because your god is infallible. By this logic, the perfection has now been poisoned and there is no cleaning it up again. So, if that is the case, then why should anything from the Bible be considered to be divine?

Has anybody else had this used against them as well?

Oh Laugh out load My sides. I wish to unholy Cthulhu that a christian apologist would try that line on me. I think I would have them repeat it and then laugh and laugh and then explain what they just said slowly in small words.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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10-04-2014, 09:22 PM
RE: Bible Translation Defense
(10-04-2014 09:13 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(10-04-2014 09:02 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  I got this defense used against me in a debate earlier today:

"Well, the Bible has been translated so many times, you can't even say for sure what a particular quote originally said!"

This was a response to my mention of all the immoral bullshit in the Bible. It's a classic case of trying to get a free pass to cherry pick. Of course, by doing so they are also putting on the table that anything and everything from the Bible is questionable about what parts are translated correctly and which ones are not. If you make that claim, then you can't turn around and make the claim that the Bible is the word of your god, and therefore true, because your god is infallible. By this logic, the perfection has now been poisoned and there is no cleaning it up again. So, if that is the case, then why should anything from the Bible be considered to be divine?

Has anybody else had this used against them as well?

Oh Laugh out load My sides. I wish to unholy Cthulhu that a christian apologist would try that line on me. I think I would have them repeat it and then laugh and laugh and then explain what they just said slowly in small words.

Yeah, I would have been laughing my ass off too if I wasn't so dumbfounded at the complete stupidity of the argument! I just kept saying to myself "Really? I mean, REALLY?!?! Is she actually fucking saying this?!" Facepalm

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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10-04-2014, 09:42 PM
RE: Bible Translation Defense
I've never heard a Christian willingly claim that the bible was unreliable. This has to be a first.
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10-04-2014, 09:53 PM
RE: Bible Translation Defense
(10-04-2014 09:02 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  "Well, the Bible has been translated so many times, you can't even say for sure what a particular quote originally said!"

Let me visualize that statement:
[Image: self-knockout.gif]

Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια?
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11-04-2014, 06:17 AM
RE: Bible Translation Defense
(10-04-2014 09:02 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  I got this defense used against me in a debate earlier today:

"Well, the Bible has been translated so many times, you can't even say for sure what a particular quote originally said!"

This was a response to my mention of all the immoral bullshit in the Bible. It's a classic case of trying to get a free pass to cherry pick. Of course, by doing so they are also putting on the table that anything and everything from the Bible is questionable about what parts are translated correctly and which ones are not. If you make that claim, then you can't turn around and make the claim that the Bible is the word of your god, and therefore true, because your god is infallible. By this logic, the perfection has now been poisoned and there is no cleaning it up again. So, if that is the case, then why should anything from the Bible be considered to be divine?

Not only that, it actually gives you the ability to turn the tables on them and they can't even complain about it. Their rationale is:
  • The Bible as written contains good stuff and bad stuff.
  • We don't know how accurate the Bible is.
  • I assume God is good, so the bad stuff must be inaccurate.

Those first two points are accurate, but the last one is basically where they make an assumption and use it to justify cherry picking they way they like. So, when they do that, just switch the third premise to say that you assume God is bad, so the good stuff is inaccurate. It works exactly as well as her position does!

You tell her that God is a murderous psychopath. When she points out all the mercy crap, you say "What mercy? He totally killed children! All the parts about people singing his praises was done out of fear". When she asks why God sent Jesus to die for our sins, you say "It was totally unnecessary because he could have just done it. He's so murderous that he has to contrive excuses to kill aspects of himself!". If she asks why the disciples were willing to die for something that was a lie, tell her "They were scared shitless of going to this new hell that Jesus invented.".

As soon as she opens that can of worms, you can have a field day with it. Her two options are to pitch a hissy fit or redact her stupid position.


(10-04-2014 09:02 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  Has anybody else had this used against them as well?
(10-04-2014 09:42 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  I've never heard a Christian willingly claim that the bible was unreliable. This has to be a first.

My wife believes something similar. She's good at dismissing pretty much anything other than the "be nice to people" parts of the Bible, but she still clings to those.
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11-04-2014, 07:05 AM
RE: Bible Translation Defense
(10-04-2014 09:02 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  "Well, the Bible has been translated so many times, you can't even say for sure what a particular quote originally said!"


Has anybody else had this used against them as well?

I agree with your interlocutor.

This is a case of wanting to have their cake and eat it too. The faithful do it all the time. Every religious person I have ever talked to has. They just can't get the concept that in a debate they don't have to win every point. So they end up twisting into pretzels and making contradicting statements in order to avoid conceding the obvious.

They are master dis-integrators as in they hold contradictory ideas all the time and it doesn't bother them. I can honestly say I've never met an intellectually honest religious person in my life.

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11-04-2014, 07:24 AM
RE: Bible Translation Defense
It depends on the scripture. There are legitimate translation issues that can change the meanings of verses.

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11-04-2014, 07:31 AM
RE: Bible Translation Defense
Read it in Latin, it gets really fun.

So many words for "rape" and "kill" and they all mean different things!
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11-04-2014, 07:39 AM
RE: Bible Translation Defense
(11-04-2014 07:24 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  It depends on the scripture. There are legitimate translation issues that can change the meanings of verses.

True, but the point is that most Christians will whip this out as an excuse to defend cherry picking while being completely oblivious to the fact that the argument in fact denies them a justification for doing so.

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