Bible as the most reliable ancient text
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-10-2017, 04:08 PM
RE: Bible as the most reliable ancient text
(23-10-2017 08:53 AM)AreUthinking? Wrote:  
(22-10-2017 06:52 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  The fact is, hardly two early manuscripts are the same. There are lots of variations, and scholars are well aware of that. The earliest copies of Mark do not have the final verses of chapter 16 relation the resurrection of Mark. Since the other gospel writers had nothing to copy from, each made up their own resurrection tales. Mark 16:9-16 was added later. For the first two centuries, copies of the gospels were papyruses. Many of them fragmentary. There are only 72 such manuscripts. From there there was a series of divergent schools of gospel editors, and lots of variations to be found. Hardly reliable. Most certainly we have nothing that can be called original.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual_va..._Testament

John Mill's 1707 Greek New Testament was estimated to contain some 30,000 variants in its accompanying textual apparatus[1] which was based on "nearly 100 [Greek] manuscripts."[2] Eberhard Nestle estimated this number in 1897 as 150,000–200,000 variants.[3] Bart D. Ehrman has estimated that there are "between 200,000–400,000 variants [in] several million pages of manuscripts,"[4] and in 2014 Eldon J. Epp raised the estimate as high as 750,000.[5] The most recent estimate puts the number of non-spelling variants among New Testament manuscripts around 500,000.[6]

Wikipedia isn't reliable. Don't use wikipedia. Also, there are other people that copy the original manuscript. The one written by the Real MARK is important, and Mark didn't even write 100000000 copies of it. Same with other gospels.

Wikipedia is more reliable than the gospels. Numerous scholars have indeed catalogued the many variations of the gospels texts. As pointed out by this Wikipedia article.

There is no "real MARK". Mark's named was placed on this gospel later and nobody knows who wrote it. The earliest copies of Mark do not have Mark 16:9-20, the resurrection tall tale. Having no resurrection story, those who copied Mark were left to make up their own, which is why none of the resurrection tall tales jibe with each other and contradict each other wildly. Nor with the resurrection tall tale in Acts. Which notice, contradicts the tall tale in Luke despite both supposedly being written by the same author, Luke.

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter
- Thomas Jefferson

Cheerful Charlie
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Cheerful Charlie's post
24-10-2017, 04:14 PM
RE: Bible as the most reliable ancient text
(16-06-2013 01:45 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  In an ongoing debate with a Christian, I've stuck in a place where I don't know how to go on and Google isn't helping.

This particular guy ignores every bad detail in the Bible, all the cruelty and contradictions, because as he says "if Jesus was resurrected, nothing else matters", since, I guess, it's an amazing thing(?).

So I ask him, how can he be so sure that Jesus was resurrected? And he always answers in the same way: the New Testament in the most reliable ancient document ever. He goes on to show me that based on Text Criticism, the New Testament has not been altered or tampered in any way and the mistakes from the constant copying are minor.

The point is, even if that is true, it only means that the New Testament was the same 2000 years ago as it is now. How does it prove that it is reliable and historically true?

I'm quite buffled by the way he throws "reliability" around and I'm not quite sure about how to face this. Any help?
Just rephrase his point using the Quran rather than the Bible. See if he agrees then.

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes SunnyD1's post
24-10-2017, 05:36 PM
RE: Bible as the most reliable ancient text
The New Testament isn't the same as it's always been. By Benedict XVI's own admission, in one of his own books about Jesus, the ending of the Gospel of Mark was added later. The story of Jesus saying "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" was a 3rd century interpolation.

The Gospels contradict each other on when Jesus was born (Matthew has him born in the BCE's, Luke has him born in the Common Era) and (again, by Benedict XVI's own admission) they contradict each other on when Jesus was arrested, when he was tried, and when he was crucified. It isn't as though they didn't understand the concept of inconsistency, Mark tried to discredit the witnesses at Jesus' trial by noting that their stories conflicted with one another. Well, the Evangelists conflict with one another on nearly every page. Christians who say otherwise are like climate deniers who can prove that climate change isn't true because it was hotter in June of 1938 while it snowed at some point in the last decade.

O, mia patria, sì bella e perduta
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2017, 05:40 PM
RE: Bible as the most reliable ancient text
(23-10-2017 08:51 AM)AreUthinking? Wrote:  5. the Bible is more reliable than other ancient text.

What's the name of the main character? No, it isn't Jesus. That's Greek.

When was he born? Day and Year please.

When did he die? The most important event in history so it'd look a bit silly if we didn't know when it happened.

Please try to answer using only the Bible as all other sources are less reliable.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Paleophyte's post
24-10-2017, 05:53 PM
RE: Bible as the most reliable ancient text
(24-10-2017 05:40 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  When was he born? Day and Year please.

December 25, 0000 at midnight. Duh. If Jeebus wasn't real, how would we know what year it was?

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like The Organic Chemist's post
24-10-2017, 06:23 PM
RE: Bible as the most reliable ancient text
We have to believe the Bible because it is the inspired holy word of God Angel
But, when it gets things wrong it's just because it was written down by fallible human beings Facepalm
Talk about covering all your bases Smartass

No gods necessary.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like brunumb's post
24-10-2017, 09:42 PM
RE: Bible as the most reliable ancient text
(24-10-2017 05:40 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(23-10-2017 08:51 AM)AreUthinking? Wrote:  5. the Bible is more reliable than other ancient text.

What's the name of the main character? No, it isn't Jesus. That's Greek.

When was he born? Day and Year please.

When did he die? The most important event in history so it'd look a bit silly if we didn't know when it happened.

Please try to answer using only the Bible as all other sources are less reliable.

Easy peasy. This information can easily be deduced.
If Santa and the Bunny can figure these things out, surely he can.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-10-2017, 04:48 AM
RE: Bible as the most reliable ancient text
(24-10-2017 06:23 PM)brunumb Wrote:  We have to believe the Bible because it is the inspired holy word of God Angel
But, when it gets things wrong it's just because it was written down by fallible human beings Facepalm
Talk about covering all your bases Smartass

Like when a movie says "inspired by real events" and it's nothing like what actually happened. Laugh out load

One day God spoke and said "Hey...umm, I exist and there is a heaven, so write that down please". Thousands of years later, and here we are with the absolute fuck up that is Zi Bible.

The Helpful Atheist - An Information Blog
Last updated: 08/11/2017 - Want to contribute, drop me a PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like OakTree500's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: