Bible question!
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19-03-2016, 09:24 AM
RE: Bible question!
(19-03-2016 09:06 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(19-03-2016 09:01 AM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  Yes. Because I think it's crazy to call their beliefs a "myth" but I guess that's what happens. It's just starting to sink in I guess.

Why it's crazy to call their beliefs myths? Christians could easily take x and call rest of the source material myth to disparage rival.

Are you asking why it's crazy? Or stating why?
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19-03-2016, 09:38 AM
RE: Bible question!
I gave up sweating over the interpretation—literal or figurative, apologue or parable?—of passages in the Christian bible many, many moons ago. Why should an atheist like me waste any time at all worrying about a nonsensical collection of myths, delusions, legends, hearsay, fabrications and superstitions?

It's very seldom I see the need to debate any specific verse/chapter of the bible as it's possibly one of the most willfully scientifically ignorant documents ever cobbled together that's survived into the 21st century. How is it possible that supposedly rational, educated, articulate people in 2016 can still accept the arrant drivel in this book? They blindly accept that in the past, snakes and donkeys could apparently speak Hebrew! Or that their imaginary Ark could hold (conservatively) 950,000 insect species and 1.5 million animal species. And that the sun and the moon once revolved around the earth. Or that the heart was the seat of thought processes and beliefs, while the kidneys were the seat of conscience... I could go on...

But I won't. Tongue

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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19-03-2016, 09:44 AM
RE: Bible question!
(19-03-2016 09:24 AM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  
(19-03-2016 09:06 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Why it's crazy to call their beliefs myths? Christians could easily take x and call rest of the source material myth to disparage rival.

Are you asking why it's crazy? Or stating why?

I am asking why do you think that calling myths myths is crazy and I give my answer as to why it isn't.

Christians could take something from Jewish mythology and call rest of Jews beliefs myths. I see nothing crazy in it.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-03-2016, 09:50 AM
RE: Bible question!
OH. OK.
so like.. as a christian i didnt see this. but i think the whole thing is a mess now. you call them myths but your "truth" is basically based on these myths. BUT YOURS IS TRUE.
prior to this week i identified as a christian. its still hard for me to see these beliefs as myths lol. but i believe i am getting there.
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19-03-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: Bible question!
(19-03-2016 09:50 AM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  OH. OK.
so like.. as a christian i didnt see this. but i think the whole thing is a mess now. you call them myths but your "truth" is basically based on these myths. BUT YOURS IS TRUE.
prior to this week i identified as a christian. its still hard for me to see these beliefs as myths lol. but i believe i am getting there.

Your Truth is based on part of their myths and contain things that weren't in earlier edition.

In short myth is only part with which you disagree.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-03-2016, 10:03 AM
RE: Bible question!
(19-03-2016 09:50 AM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  OH. OK.
so like.. as a christian i didnt see this. but i think the whole thing is a mess now. you call them myths but your "truth" is basically based on these myths. BUT YOURS IS TRUE.
prior to this week i identified as a christian. its still hard for me to see these beliefs as myths lol. but i believe i am getting there.

We all post from our own points of view, so ja, your opinion is also relevant. A lot of us have 'deconverted' i.e. taken a long hard look at Christianity and decided it's bullshit, but that's something you will have to think about ultimately for yourself. Basically the more you read about it and discuss it though, the more likely it is that you'll encounter stuff that doesn't make any sense. Makes it harder to maintain faith.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-03-2016, 10:04 AM
RE: Bible question!
im actually disagreeing with a good bit now. thats why im on this site lol. it just caught me off guard i guess to see it referred to as "jewish myths" i just wondered why we call ours true and thiers myths. that was all. im in a struggle. i thought i understood the bible, and now questions are rising and i dont understand as much as i thought.
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19-03-2016, 10:13 AM
RE: Bible question!
(19-03-2016 10:04 AM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  im actually disagreeing with a good bit now. thats why im on this site lol. it just caught me off guard i guess to see it referred to as "jewish myths" i just wondered why we call ours true and thiers myths. that was all. im in a struggle. i thought i understood the bible, and now questions are rising and i dont understand as much as i thought.

You see, it's two different approaches.

The sort of... critical thinking approach is: "What is this stuff? How can I confirm it? Truth is found by investigation and testing."

This is diametrically opposite to the religious approach which is "This is the truth. I know it to be the truth. I can confirm it by asking my pastor or praying or reading my bible. Truth is found by feelings and by asking someone cleverer than me."

If you ever take the critical thinking approach you're pretty much guaranteed to hit questions like:
Who wrote the Bible?
Why do I believe it when it claims such crazy stuff?
Is it possible that the Bible is wrong?

Because of this Christians typically devote quite a lot of time to bashing other religions and atheists - they are sinful and agents of Satan - under the guise of being concerned for their eternal souls, praying for the lost etc, and also to promoting "faith" as a virtue and denigrating doubt as not necessarily bad but definitely dodgy and quite borderline - they can't quite say that doubting is evil because that makes them look a little too authoritarian, but you must doubt in the correct way. i.e. if you have doubts, pray, consult your bible and go and ask your pastor, who will feed you some bullshit line and hopefully you will accept it.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-03-2016, 10:43 AM
RE: Bible question!
i dont want the religious part anymore. it doesnt make as much sense to me. i feel like cutting ties with christianity but at the same time im scared of letting go.. everything i have been taught was supposed to keep this from happening. and it is failing.
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19-03-2016, 11:02 AM
RE: Bible question!
Jesus starts out as a messiah candidate loosely based on actual Jewish expectations. It required a lot of hope and wishing that he'll come back to life, but the expectations were clearly Jewish. When it became evident that Jesus wasn’t “coming back” and that the messianic era wasn’t kicking off, I think the Jewish followers started to doubt and perhaps drop off. The religion was opened up to the Pagan Romans to keep it going. There were two sets of rules within early Christianity. Jews were still expected to keep kosher and circumcise their sons. Romans were not held to these rules. The Jews within the ranks of early Christianity held that the messiah is a Jewish concept and must adhere to the previously established Jewish rules while Roman weaved in their own pagan traditions and superimposed Jesus onto existing Roman stories about a savior.

As I was taught, resentment between the the messianic Jews and the pagans within early Christianity had caused a huge divide and this passage seems to be about that conflict.

10 For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.

Here, the author of Titus seems to be calling out the Jews, presumably angry because they’re teaching Jewish values which contradict pagan values.

12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.

Give the silent treatment to the Jews because they’re putting their time-honored history and tradition before our pagan idolatry.

“Commandments of men” is a clear reference to the Rabbinic tradition. Christians refer to it as such to this day.

15 To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.

Jews don’t tend to “believe”. Judaism isn’t a faith based religion; it’s founded on action. This seems to be a reference to Christianity's ideas that faith and belief are somehow "superior" to Jewish action or deeds.
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