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31-07-2015, 03:34 PM
RE: Bible questions...
Quote:You will never understand what I am talking about unless you experience what I experience.


Thanks but I'll choose to remain sane, if its okay with you.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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31-07-2015, 03:45 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 02:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  Hmm... I ask myself: If Jesus doesn't love the Gentiles then why did He die for them? Why did He took all their sins upon Himself and why did He sent His Apostles to preach GOOD NEWS to the Gentiles?
Why did He say to preach His Gospel to all people?
Because he felt god expected him to. You'd be amazed what abuse victims will do if they feel it's expected of them.


(31-07-2015 02:29 PM)Alla Wrote:  You will never understand what I am talking about unless you experience what I experience.
I am experiencing a keyboard and a video screen. How do I know this? Because I don't just trust my own senses. When others do the same things I do, they report experiencing the same things I experience. That's not true with your procedures to generate interaction with your invisible friend, leading me to doubt the underlying experience is real, but instead thinking it to be more a manifestation of your imagination.
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31-07-2015, 03:46 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 02:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 08:13 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  You should follow Jeebus' advice and dump the Mormon book.
I would if He gave advice like this.

(30-07-2015 08:13 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Most Christians assume Jesus loved anyone who accepted him; that Jesus had a personal interest in each and every individual. Yet they misunderstand their main man. Jesus did not love Gentiles (who he referred to as pagans.) He told his disciples:

“Do not turn your steps to pagan territory, and do not enter any Samaritan town. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel” (Matt. 10:6, NJB.) He said:

“I was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel” (Matt. 15:24, NJB.)

Jesus even told his fellow Jews not to pray like pagans (non Jewish people):

“And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him” (Matt. 6:7–8, NJB.)

Here is Jesus’ encounter with a Greek (i.e. non-Jewish) woman:

“He left that place and set out for the territory of Tyre. There he went into a house and did not want anyone to know he was there, but he could not pass unrecognized. A woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit heard about him straight away and came and fell at his feet. Now the woman was pagan, by birth a Syrophonecian and she begged him to cast the devil out of her daughter and he said to her ‘the children should be fed first, because it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the house dogs’. But she spoke up ‘Ah yes sir’ she replied ‘but the house dogs under the table can eat the children’s scraps’. And he said to her ‘for saying this, you may go home happy; the devil has gone out of your daughter’. So she went off to her home and found the child lying on the bed and the devil gone” (Mark 7:24–30, NJB.)

Jesus was drawing an analogy. The children were his fellow Jews, who were to be fed first. Gentiles were referred to as dogs, (when Jews wished to insult someone they often referred to them as dogs) whom Jesus would rather not help. Jesus hesitated before healing the girl because her mother was not Jewish.

Caesaria was the capital of Judea and Sepphoris the capital of Galilee, yet there is no record that Jesus ever visited either city, despite their size and importance, possibly because Gentiles populated them. Jesus could have taken his mission outside Palestine. Egyptians, Greeks, Africans, and Romans might have been wowed by his words of wisdom, yet he did not bother with them either, as they too were in Gentile territories.

These few passages suggest that Jesus was xenophobic. If Yeshua were an insurrectionist trying to start a war, preaching platitudes to Gentiles would have been the last thing on his mind. It is possible these statements reflect Yeshua’s real attitude.
People who push the “Jesus loves you” line need to read their Bibles more carefully, and should try to understand the real history. It is obvious Jesus did not even like you unless you were Jewish.

It is true there are other quotes that portray Jesus as a preacher for all people. It is probable Gentile authors have added these to try to give Jesus universal appeal, yet these quotes cannot compensate for Jesus’ bigotry.
Hmm... I ask myself: If Jesus doesn't love the Gentiles then why did He die for them? Why did He took all their sins upon Himself and why did He sent His Apostles to preach GOOD NEWS to the Gentiles?
Why did He say to preach His Gospel to all people?

The only answer that I have is this : Jesus loves the Gentiles that is why He died for them and preaches Good News for them through His Apostles and Prophets.

P.S.The ONLY reason why He said those things that you quoted is because time for the Gentiles DIDN'T come YET when He lived on Earth.

You think he had a choice? He was tried, sentenced and executed for the piece of shit he was.....uhoh, there goes the messiah story...quick, what do we do now? oooh I know, lets hide the body and say he resurrected and appeared before us....just like all of the other hero-god constructs for the last 3,000 years before jesus. Rolleyes

Just like Romulus, whose story the authors of the jesus myth used (most likely) to create the fairy tale of jesus...lets take a peek...oh by the way, it predates jesus by 800 years Gasp

Romulus
Mythology has always fascinated me. When you research mythology, you find the common strains, a rhythm, a philosophical skeletal system where the “hero god” is constructed, and the same system is used time and time again. It is almost as if one borrowed from another throughout time. It is impossible to ignore the implication of systematic fabrication. The jesus story, however, was not original. The entire story seems to have been plagiarized in bits and pieces, and sometimes blatantly intact, from ancient god/man mythology passed down by Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and Persian cultures.

The list is long, from Horus in 3000 BCE Egypt all the way to jesus, but I will focus on just one…Romulus 771 BCE. In Plutarch’s biography of Romulus, the founder of Rome, we are told he was the son of god, born of a virgin; an attempt is made to kill him as a baby, and he is saved, and raised by a poor family, hailed as King, and killed by the conniving elite; that he rises from the dead, appears to a friend to tell the good news to his people, and ascends to heaven to rule from on high. Sound familiar? Just like Jesus.

Plutarch also tells us about annual public ceremonies that were still being formed, which celebrated the day Romulus ascended to heaven. The story goes as follows: at the end of his life, amid rumors he was murdered by conspiracy of the Senate, the sun went dark, and Romulus’s body vanished. The people wanted to search for him but the Senate told them not to, “for he had risen to join the gods”. Most went away happy, hoping for good things from their new god, but “some doubted”. Soon after, Proculus, a close friend of Romulus, reported that he met Romulus “on the road” between Rome and a nearby town and asked him, “why have you abandoned us?”, To which Romulus replied that he had been a God all along but had come down to earth and become incarnate to establish a great kingdom, and now had to return to his home in heaven. Then Romulus told his friend to tell the Romans that if they are virtuous they will have all worldly power (Carrier 56).

Folks, does any of this ring any bells for you? You do realize this story predates Jesus by 800 years right? Fabricators of religion borrow from previous religions Man/God/hero constructs and have all the way back to 3000 B.C.E.

So the fact that the jesus son of god myth story has clearly been plagiarized from older Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and Persian cultures, coupled with the fact that no one who wrote of Jesus actually knew him should make a thinking person take a pause, and reflect on the basis of their faith.
In regards to my posit; paragraph three speaks about the ceremony celebrating Romulus's ascension actually going on at the time, so he is a witness, unlike the lack of witnesses in the NT of jesus. More importantly the tale of Romulus itself though was widely attested as pre-christian: in Romulus (27-28), Plutarch, though writing c. 80-120 CE, is certainly recording a long established Roman tale and custom, and his sources are unmistakenly pre-christian: Cicero, Laws 1.3, Republic 2.10; Livy, From the founding of the city 1.16.2-8 (1.3-1.16 relating the whole story of Romulus); Ovid, Fasti 2.491-512 and Metamorphoses 14.805-51; and Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Roman Antiquities 2.63.3 (1.171-2.65 relating the whole story of Romulus); a later reference: Cassius Dio, Roman History 56.46.2. The story's antiquity was even acknowledged by christians: Tertullian, Apology 21.

So as you can see, before christianity was even beginning to be fabricated, the story of Romulus was solidly incorporated into the Roman culture. So it would be a false and disingenuous posit to suggest that the story of Romulus was fabricated after jesus, and based on jesus, when it fact it is the exact opposite. It is also false to say it was interpolations (besides the fact it is all an obvious made up fabrication) as interpolations are additions to writings to make them seem more in line with whatever view the forger wishes to support after the fact. Conjecture? No, it was actually pre-christian, and as I provided above, easy to find within respectable writers from differing times and places. If Plutarch was the only one to write of it, OR he and the other writers were all writing about some "god" named Romulus from 800 years ago, and were writing it after jesus, then you could absolutely draw a correlation to the posit that the story of Romulus was based on jesus, or that it was fabricated to throw suspicion on the jesus story, sadly the facts do not reflect that.

Works cited:

Carrier, Richard. On the historicity of Jesus: why we might have reason for doubt. Sheffield, England: Sheffield Phoenix press, 2014. Print.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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31-07-2015, 04:02 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 03:46 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  You think he had a choice? He was tried, sentenced and executed for the piece of shit he was.....uhoh, there goes the messiah story...quick, what do we do now?
Yes, that is exactly what I think. He had a choice. Nobody would tried The One Who created earth and heavens if He didn't choose to let them.

P.S. So, Jesus is not racist, He suffered for all the Gentiles in the world. It was His choice.
Later when it was the right time He sent His Apostles to preach the GOOD NEWS to the Gentiles.

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31-07-2015, 04:09 PM (This post was last modified: 31-07-2015 05:18 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 04:02 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 03:46 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  You think he had a choice? He was tried, sentenced and executed for the piece of shit he was.....uhoh, there goes the messiah story...quick, what do we do now?
Yes, that is exactly what I think. He had a choice. Nobody would tried The One Who created earth and heavens if He didn't choose to let them.

P.S. So, Jesus is not racist, He suffered for all the Gentiles in the world. It was His choice.
Later when it was the right time He sent His Apostles to preach the GOOD NEWS to the Gentiles.

You are making claims you can not substantiate. here let me try, looks like fun...

Norgg has stated that unicorn farts are magical, and should be enjoyed by the faithful as they are the essence of Norgg's power. Norgg hid his presence from man, and lives with bigfoot, fairies and dragons in neverneverland. Norgg gave up his beloved two headed goat for the humans to sacrifice, which cleansed them of all sin....one has only to believe and eat a lamb chop on midnight of the 3rd day, of the 3rd month every 3 years of the the anniversary of this sacrifice, 1 BNE (Before Norgg era) to appease Norgg.

Wow that was fun....Rolleyes

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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31-07-2015, 04:13 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 03:46 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Mythology has always fascinated me. When you research mythology, you find the common strains, a rhythm, a philosophical skeletal system where the “hero god” is constructed, and the same system is used time and time again.
(31-07-2015 03:46 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  It is almost as if one borrowed from another throughout time.
(31-07-2015 03:46 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  It is impossible to ignore the implication of systematic fabrication.
(31-07-2015 03:46 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  The jesus story, however, was not original. The entire story seems to have been plagiarized in bits and pieces, and sometimes blatantly intact, from ancient god/man mythology passed down by Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and Persian cultures.
(31-07-2015 03:46 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Plutarch also tells us about annual public ceremonies that were still being formed, which celebrated the day Romulus ascended to heaven. The story goes as follows: at the end of his life, amid rumors he was murdered by conspiracy of the Senate, the sun went dark, and Romulus’s body vanished. The people wanted to search for him but the Senate told them not to, “for he had risen to join the gods”. Most went away happy, hoping for good things from their new god, but “some doubted”. Soon after, Proculus, a close friend of Romulus, reported that he met Romulus “on the road” between Rome and a nearby town and asked him, “why have you abandoned us?”, To which Romulus replied that he had been a God all along but had come down to earth and become incarnate to establish a great kingdom, and now had to return to his home in heaven. Then Romulus told his friend to tell the Romans that if they are virtuous they will have all worldly power (Carrier 56).

Folks, does any of this ring any bells for you? You do realize this story predates Jesus by 800 years right? Fabricators of religion borrow from previous religions Man/God/hero constructs and have all the way back to 3000 B.C.E.

There is very simple explanation.
There is God Yahweh(Jesus) and His covenant people on Earth. When covenant people broke their covenants and started to worship idols, God Yahweh scattered them all over the earth. It happened many, many times during the history of humanity.
When they were scattered they told their children about Messiah(Yahweh) and what one day He will do.
Or they made new stories about false gods by copying what they have learned from Yahweh.

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31-07-2015, 04:33 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 04:13 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 03:46 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Mythology has always fascinated me. When you research mythology, you find the common strains, a rhythm, a philosophical skeletal system where the “hero god” is constructed, and the same system is used time and time again.
(31-07-2015 03:46 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  It is almost as if one borrowed from another throughout time.
(31-07-2015 03:46 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  It is impossible to ignore the implication of systematic fabrication.
(31-07-2015 03:46 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  The jesus story, however, was not original. The entire story seems to have been plagiarized in bits and pieces, and sometimes blatantly intact, from ancient god/man mythology passed down by Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and Persian cultures.
(31-07-2015 03:46 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Plutarch also tells us about annual public ceremonies that were still being formed, which celebrated the day Romulus ascended to heaven. The story goes as follows: at the end of his life, amid rumors he was murdered by conspiracy of the Senate, the sun went dark, and Romulus’s body vanished. The people wanted to search for him but the Senate told them not to, “for he had risen to join the gods”. Most went away happy, hoping for good things from their new god, but “some doubted”. Soon after, Proculus, a close friend of Romulus, reported that he met Romulus “on the road” between Rome and a nearby town and asked him, “why have you abandoned us?”, To which Romulus replied that he had been a God all along but had come down to earth and become incarnate to establish a great kingdom, and now had to return to his home in heaven. Then Romulus told his friend to tell the Romans that if they are virtuous they will have all worldly power (Carrier 56).

Folks, does any of this ring any bells for you? You do realize this story predates Jesus by 800 years right? Fabricators of religion borrow from previous religions Man/God/hero constructs and have all the way back to 3000 B.C.E.

There is very simple explanation.
There is God Yahweh(Jesus) and His covenant people on Earth. When covenant people broke their covenants and started to worship idols, God Yahweh scattered them all over the earth. It happened many, many times during the history of humanity.
When they were scattered they told their children about Messiah(Yahweh) and what one day He will do.
Or they made new stories about false gods by copying what they have learned from Yahweh.

I agree, that IS a very simple explanation, wrong, but definitely simple.

Now, since I pity how lost you are, mired in so much misinformation, I will assist you down the path to the truth....how do you know that? Where did you gain this special knowledge? Please don't say the BOM...or the bible as both can be eviscerated for the fictional books that they are....take for example the BOM...

In Mormonism, men and women have the potential of becoming gods. President Lorenzo Snow said, "As god once was, man is. As God is, man may become." In order to reach this exalted state of godhood, a person must first become a good Mormon, pay a full ten percent tithe to the Mormon church, follow various laws and ordinances of the church, and be found worthy. At this point, they receive a temple recommend, whereupon the Mormon is allowed to enter their sacred temples in order to go through a set of secret rituals: baptism for the dead, celestial marriage, and various oaths of secrecy and commitment. Additionally, four secret handshakes are taught so the believing Mormon, upon entering the third level of Mormon heaven, can shake hands with god in a certain pattern. This celestial ritual is for the purpose of permitting entrance into the highest level of heaven. For those who achieve this highest of heavens, exaltation to godhood awaits them. Then he or she will be permitted to have his or her own planet and be the god of his own world and the Mormon system will be expanded to other planets.

Book of Mormon issues:

1. The book originally claimed that the Indians were all descended from Jews who left Jerusalem about 621 B.C.E. because of the imminent Babylonian captivity. Now, after several thousand edits, it claims that the BofM people were "one of many" of the people of the New World. All available DNA evidence indicates that racially the American Indians came from either Asian, Pacific islander or even some input from Early European mixtures in Asia, but none, zero, from Semitic sources.

2. The Nephites and Lamanites, the 2 Jewish groups that were opposed to each other, supposedly brought with them horses, sheep, cattle and a variety of grains and fruits. NONE of which were evident when the European explorers arrived. There was no knowledge or history of these animals among the Indians of that time.

3. None of the animals that were native to either North or South America; Mountain lions, buffalo, elk, deer, grizzly bears, jaguars, howler monkeys and so on are not mentioned.

4. The location of their landing, a place identified as a "narrow neck of land" has never been identified. The church originally located it in Central america, due to all the archaeology that was being discovered during the last century. Now they make no claims. No specific terrain formations that obviously stand out, like volcanoes, are not mentioned. Central America is home to over 40 volcanoes, some of which were known to be active during the 1900 year period that encompasses the Book of Mormon.

5. The book speaks of vast cities, numerous armies numbering in the thousands, bloody battles and so on by armed and armored forces on horseback and on foot. None of the cities described or any remnant of any battles or anything indicating what the book describes has ever been found.

6. The book mentions coinage, a monetary system, the smelting of metals-including steel, which was unknown to the Israelis of 621 BC- and the ability to mine, smelt, and forge all manner of implements and weapons. Native Americans possessed no such technology and there is no evidence it ever existed prior to the Europeans arriving. In the Holy Land, where coinage was in use for centuries, there today you can still find ancient coins in numerous locations. None in the Americas.

7. The Book of Mormon itself was not an original idea. The concept of Indians being Jewish-which was lampooned by Mel Brooks in "Blazing Saddles"- was an idea currently popular when the book was written. A book entitled "View of the Hebrews" was already in print prior to the Book of Mormon's publication. there are many parallels between to two books, oddly enough.

8. The Golden Plates from which the BofM was translated were supposed to have magically been kept in a hill that happened to be close to Joseph Smith's home. He was seen carrying a bundle under his arm which he claimed were the plates. The plates, made of gold or an alloy of gold, were supposedly about nine by six by nearly a foot thick, a bundle that would weigh 300 pounds, that he was carrying around under his arm.

9. the book was published in 1830. The First Vision, from which Joseph supposedly was told by God about the book, happened in 1820. In the intervening period he was married and applied for membership to the Methodist church. He was denied because he was known as a man of low character. The First Vision story did not come out until after the publication of the book, and his own mother, who wrote a diary of that time, never mentions it.

10. Many aspects of the BofM and characters in the book-Laban, from whom the golden plates were taken in Jerusalem- just happen to be characters in Masonic ceremonies. Joseph Smith became a Mason along with his brothers and Brigham Young during the period of time all this was happening.

The characters in the BofM only encountered 2 other groups that were not a part of their solo journey- both of which also came from Judea. There is no mention of any other tribe or group. In that period of American history, the entirety of North and South America were populated from Canada to Patagonia with millions of Native Americans, none of which were ever encountered.

BOM Specifics:
2 Nephi 2:25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.
False: Men exist without Adam's fall

Birth of Jesus
Alma 7:10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.
CONTRADICTS Matt. 2:1, Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea Alma 7:10 contradicts the Bible in Matt. 2:1

Cimeter (Scimitar)
Mosiah9:16 And it came to pass that I did arm them with bows, and with arrows, with swords, and with cimeters, and with clubs, and with slings, and with all manner of weapons which we could invent, and I and my people did go forth against the Lamanites to battle. (See also Enos 1:20; Mosiah 10:8; Alma 2:12; 27:29; 43:18,20,37; 44:8; 60:2; Helaman 1:14)
Scimitars (Curved Swords) didn't exist until the 500's. 200-187 B.C.

Elephants
Ether 9:19 And they also had horses, and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and cumoms.
Elephants weren't in America at the time of the BOM

Honey Bees
Ether 2:3 And they did also carry with them deseret, which, by interpretation, is a honey bee; and thus they did carry with them swarms of bees, and all manner of that which was upon the face of the land, seeds of every kind.
Honey Bees were introduced to the Americas by the Spanish

God Indwells the Righteous
Alma 34:36 And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell; yea, and he has also said that the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out; but their garments should be made white through the blood of the Lamb.
CONTRADICTS D&C 130:3, "The appearing of the Father and the Son, in that verse, is a personal appearance; and the idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man's heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false." BOM contradicts D&C

Horses
1 Nephi 18:25 And it came to pass that we did find upon the land of promise, as we journeyed in the wilderness, that there were beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow and the ox, and the ass and the horse, and the goat and the wild goat, and all manner of wild animals, which were for the use of men. And we did find all manner of ore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper. (Horses see 2 Nephi 12:7; 2 Nephi 15:28; Enos 1:21; Alma 18:9,10,12; 20:6; 3 Nephi 3:22; 4:4; 6:1; 21:14; Ether 9:19; )
Horses didn't exist in America until the 16th Century 590-589 BC

Steel
1 Nephi 4:9 And I beheld his sword, and I drew it forth from the sheath thereof; and the hilt thereof was of pure gold, and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine, and I saw that the blade thereof was of the most precious steel. (See also 1 Neph 16:18; 2 Nephi 5:15; Jarom 1:8; Ether 7:9)
The Jews didn't have steel at that time. 600-592 B.C.

Salvation
2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. After all we can do
Salvation by works, not by Grace; disagrees with Christian belief

Silk
Alma 4:6 And it came to pass in the eighth year of the reign of the judges, that the people of the church began to wax proud, because of their exceeding riches, and their fine silks, and their fine-twined linen, and because of their many flocks and herds, and their gold and their silver, and all manner of precious things, which they had obtained by their industry; and in all these things were they lifted up in the pride of their eyes, for they began to wear very costly apparel.
Jews didn't have silk then. The Jews didn't have silk at that time 86-83 B.C.

again, THINK, seek knowledge, remove the veil of blind faith someone has wrapped around your tiny little head.

Lets take a peek behind the mormon curtain shall we, see what they are up to in their secret inner temple (my father is a mormon, I know much about your delusion)...




"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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31-07-2015, 04:47 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 04:33 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I agree, that IS a very simple explanation, wrong, but definitely simple.
Why is it wrong?
(31-07-2015 04:33 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Book of Mormon issues:
What does it have to do with my simple explanation?
Those issues are not issues at all. Just read any LDS apologetics website.
All those claims were refuted long time ago. I don't even want to discuss all these crappy claims. (It is not your crappy claims. So, I didn't mean to insult you.)
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31-07-2015, 05:03 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 02:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 08:13 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  You should follow Jeebus' advice and dump the Mormon book.
I would if He gave advice like this.

(30-07-2015 08:13 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Most Christians assume Jesus loved anyone who accepted him; that Jesus had a personal interest in each and every individual. Yet they misunderstand their main man. Jesus did not love Gentiles (who he referred to as pagans.) He told his disciples:

“Do not turn your steps to pagan territory, and do not enter any Samaritan town. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel” (Matt. 10:6, NJB.) He said:

“I was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel” (Matt. 15:24, NJB.)

Jesus even told his fellow Jews not to pray like pagans (non Jewish people):

“And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him” (Matt. 6:7–8, NJB.)

Here is Jesus’ encounter with a Greek (i.e. non-Jewish) woman:

“He left that place and set out for the territory of Tyre. There he went into a house and did not want anyone to know he was there, but he could not pass unrecognized. A woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit heard about him straight away and came and fell at his feet. Now the woman was pagan, by birth a Syrophonecian and she begged him to cast the devil out of her daughter and he said to her ‘the children should be fed first, because it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the house dogs’. But she spoke up ‘Ah yes sir’ she replied ‘but the house dogs under the table can eat the children’s scraps’. And he said to her ‘for saying this, you may go home happy; the devil has gone out of your daughter’. So she went off to her home and found the child lying on the bed and the devil gone” (Mark 7:24–30, NJB.)

Jesus was drawing an analogy. The children were his fellow Jews, who were to be fed first. Gentiles were referred to as dogs, (when Jews wished to insult someone they often referred to them as dogs) whom Jesus would rather not help. Jesus hesitated before healing the girl because her mother was not Jewish.

Caesaria was the capital of Judea and Sepphoris the capital of Galilee, yet there is no record that Jesus ever visited either city, despite their size and importance, possibly because Gentiles populated them. Jesus could have taken his mission outside Palestine. Egyptians, Greeks, Africans, and Romans might have been wowed by his words of wisdom, yet he did not bother with them either, as they too were in Gentile territories.

These few passages suggest that Jesus was xenophobic. If Yeshua were an insurrectionist trying to start a war, preaching platitudes to Gentiles would have been the last thing on his mind. It is possible these statements reflect Yeshua’s real attitude.
People who push the “Jesus loves you” line need to read their Bibles more carefully, and should try to understand the real history. It is obvious Jesus did not even like you unless you were Jewish.

It is true there are other quotes that portray Jesus as a preacher for all people. It is probable Gentile authors have added these to try to give Jesus universal appeal, yet these quotes cannot compensate for Jesus’ bigotry.
Hmm... I ask myself: If Jesus doesn't love the Gentiles then why did He die for them? Why did He took all their sins upon Himself and why did He sent His Apostles to preach GOOD NEWS to the Gentiles?
Why did He say to preach His Gospel to all people?

The only answer that I have is this : Jesus loves the Gentiles that is why He died for them and preaches Good News for them through His Apostles and Prophets.

P.S.The ONLY reason why He said those things that you quoted is because time for the Gentiles DIDN'T come YET when He lived on Earth.

"Hmm... I ask myself: If Jesus doesn't love the Gentiles then why did He die for them?"

The real Jesus, if he ever existed, was a fundamentalist Jew who hated the Gentile world. Gentiles nailed him up naked on a cross. He didn't die for them, he was killed by them. The idea that a Christ died for the sins of the world was made up many years later by Paul. Read this paragraph again... slowly.
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31-07-2015, 05:06 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 04:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 04:33 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I agree, that IS a very simple explanation, wrong, but definitely simple.
Why is it wrong?
(31-07-2015 04:33 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Book of Mormon issues:
What does it have to do with my simple explanation?
Those issues are not issues at all. Just read any LDS apologetics website.
All those claims were refuted long time ago. I don't even want to discuss all these crappy claims. (It is not your crappy claims. So, I didn't mean to insult you.)
Heart

It is wrong because it has no basis in fact. Simply because you state some woo that you were taught, and which has zero corroborating or supporting evidence, does not a fact make. I can speak yoda too Big Grin

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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