Bible questions...
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31-07-2015, 05:07 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 02:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 08:13 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  You should follow Jeebus' advice and dump the Mormon book.
I would if He gave advice like this.

(30-07-2015 08:13 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Most Christians assume Jesus loved anyone who accepted him; that Jesus had a personal interest in each and every individual. Yet they misunderstand their main man. Jesus did not love Gentiles (who he referred to as pagans.) He told his disciples:

“Do not turn your steps to pagan territory, and do not enter any Samaritan town. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel” (Matt. 10:6, NJB.) He said:

“I was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel” (Matt. 15:24, NJB.)

Jesus even told his fellow Jews not to pray like pagans (non Jewish people):

“And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him” (Matt. 6:7–8, NJB.)

Here is Jesus’ encounter with a Greek (i.e. non-Jewish) woman:

“He left that place and set out for the territory of Tyre. There he went into a house and did not want anyone to know he was there, but he could not pass unrecognized. A woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit heard about him straight away and came and fell at his feet. Now the woman was pagan, by birth a Syrophonecian and she begged him to cast the devil out of her daughter and he said to her ‘the children should be fed first, because it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the house dogs’. But she spoke up ‘Ah yes sir’ she replied ‘but the house dogs under the table can eat the children’s scraps’. And he said to her ‘for saying this, you may go home happy; the devil has gone out of your daughter’. So she went off to her home and found the child lying on the bed and the devil gone” (Mark 7:24–30, NJB.)

Jesus was drawing an analogy. The children were his fellow Jews, who were to be fed first. Gentiles were referred to as dogs, (when Jews wished to insult someone they often referred to them as dogs) whom Jesus would rather not help. Jesus hesitated before healing the girl because her mother was not Jewish.

Caesaria was the capital of Judea and Sepphoris the capital of Galilee, yet there is no record that Jesus ever visited either city, despite their size and importance, possibly because Gentiles populated them. Jesus could have taken his mission outside Palestine. Egyptians, Greeks, Africans, and Romans might have been wowed by his words of wisdom, yet he did not bother with them either, as they too were in Gentile territories.

These few passages suggest that Jesus was xenophobic. If Yeshua were an insurrectionist trying to start a war, preaching platitudes to Gentiles would have been the last thing on his mind. It is possible these statements reflect Yeshua’s real attitude.
People who push the “Jesus loves you” line need to read their Bibles more carefully, and should try to understand the real history. It is obvious Jesus did not even like you unless you were Jewish.

It is true there are other quotes that portray Jesus as a preacher for all people. It is probable Gentile authors have added these to try to give Jesus universal appeal, yet these quotes cannot compensate for Jesus’ bigotry.
Hmm... I ask myself: If Jesus doesn't love the Gentiles then why did He die for them? Why did He took all their sins upon Himself and why did He sent His Apostles to preach GOOD NEWS to the Gentiles?
Why did He say to preach His Gospel to all people?

The only answer that I have is this : Jesus loves the Gentiles that is why He died for them and preaches Good News for them through His Apostles and Prophets.

P.S.The ONLY reason why He said those things that you quoted is because time for the Gentiles DIDN'T come YET when He lived on Earth.

"why did He sent His Apostles to preach GOOD NEWS to the Gentiles? Why did He say to preach His Gospel to all people?"

The Jesus you know is a comic book character made up by multiple Gospel authors. That is why "he" is so often inconsistent. Read these two sentences again... slowly.
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31-07-2015, 05:11 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 05:07 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 02:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  I would if He gave advice like this.

Hmm... I ask myself: If Jesus doesn't love the Gentiles then why did He die for them? Why did He took all their sins upon Himself and why did He sent His Apostles to preach GOOD NEWS to the Gentiles?
Why did He say to preach His Gospel to all people?

The only answer that I have is this : Jesus loves the Gentiles that is why He died for them and preaches Good News for them through His Apostles and Prophets.

P.S.The ONLY reason why He said those things that you quoted is because time for the Gentiles DIDN'T come YET when He lived on Earth.

"why did He sent His Apostles to preach GOOD NEWS to the Gentiles? Why did He say to preach His Gospel to all people?"

The Jesus you know is a comic book character made up by multiple Gospel authors. That is why "he" is so often inconsistent. Read these two sentences again... slowly.
Translations of the Bible are inconsistent. That is why I do not built my faith upon the Bible only.

English is my second language.
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31-07-2015, 05:13 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 03:46 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 02:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  I would if He gave advice like this.

Hmm... I ask myself: If Jesus doesn't love the Gentiles then why did He die for them? Why did He took all their sins upon Himself and why did He sent His Apostles to preach GOOD NEWS to the Gentiles?
Why did He say to preach His Gospel to all people?

The only answer that I have is this : Jesus loves the Gentiles that is why He died for them and preaches Good News for them through His Apostles and Prophets.

P.S.The ONLY reason why He said those things that you quoted is because time for the Gentiles DIDN'T come YET when He lived on Earth.

You think he had a choice? He was tried, sentenced and executed for the piece of shit he was.....uhoh, there goes the messiah story...quick, what do we do now? oooh I know, lets hide the body and say he resurrected and appeared before us....just like all of the other hero-god constructs for the last 3,000 years before jesus. Rolleyes

Just like Romulus, whose story the authors of the jesus myth used (most likely) to create the fairy tale of jesus...lets take a peek...oh by the way, it predates jesus by 800 years Gasp

Romulus
Mythology has always fascinated me. When you research mythology, you find the common strains, a rhythm, a philosophical skeletal system where the “hero god” is constructed, and the same system is used time and time again. It is almost as if one borrowed from another throughout time. It is impossible to ignore the implication of systematic fabrication. The jesus story, however, was not original. The entire story seems to have been plagiarized in bits and pieces, and sometimes blatantly intact, from ancient god/man mythology passed down by Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and Persian cultures.

The list is long, from Horus in 3000 BCE Egypt all the way to jesus, but I will focus on just one…Romulus 771 BCE. In Plutarch’s biography of Romulus, the founder of Rome, we are told he was the son of god, born of a virgin; an attempt is made to kill him as a baby, and he is saved, and raised by a poor family, hailed as King, and killed by the conniving elite; that he rises from the dead, appears to a friend to tell the good news to his people, and ascends to heaven to rule from on high. Sound familiar? Just like Jesus.

Plutarch also tells us about annual public ceremonies that were still being formed, which celebrated the day Romulus ascended to heaven. The story goes as follows: at the end of his life, amid rumors he was murdered by conspiracy of the Senate, the sun went dark, and Romulus’s body vanished. The people wanted to search for him but the Senate told them not to, “for he had risen to join the gods”. Most went away happy, hoping for good things from their new god, but “some doubted”. Soon after, Proculus, a close friend of Romulus, reported that he met Romulus “on the road” between Rome and a nearby town and asked him, “why have you abandoned us?”, To which Romulus replied that he had been a God all along but had come down to earth and become incarnate to establish a great kingdom, and now had to return to his home in heaven. Then Romulus told his friend to tell the Romans that if they are virtuous they will have all worldly power (Carrier 56).

Folks, does any of this ring any bells for you? You do realize this story predates Jesus by 800 years right? Fabricators of religion borrow from previous religions Man/God/hero constructs and have all the way back to 3000 B.C.E.

So the fact that the jesus son of god myth story has clearly been plagiarized from older Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and Persian cultures, coupled with the fact that no one who wrote of Jesus actually knew him should make a thinking person take a pause, and reflect on the basis of their faith.
In regards to my posit; paragraph three speaks about the ceremony celebrating Romulus's ascension actually going on at the time, so he is a witness, unlike the lack of witnesses in the NT of jesus. More importantly the tale of Romulus itself though was widely attested as pre-christian: in Romulus (27-28), Plutarch, though writing c. 80-120 CE, is certainly recording a long established Roman tale and custom, and his sources are unmistakenly pre-christian: Cicero, Laws 1.3, Republic 2.10; Livy, From the founding of the city 1.16.2-8 (1.3-1.16 relating the whole story of Romulus); Ovid, Fasti 2.491-512 and Metamorphoses 14.805-51; and Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Roman Antiquities 2.63.3 (1.171-2.65 relating the whole story of Romulus); a later reference: Cassius Dio, Roman History 56.46.2. The story's antiquity was even acknowledged by christians: Tertullian, Apology 21.

So as you can see, before christianity was even beginning to be fabricated, the story of Romulus was solidly incorporated into the Roman culture. So it would be a false and disingenuous posit to suggest that the story of Romulus was fabricated after jesus, and based on jesus, when it fact it is the exact opposite. It is also false to say it was interpolations (besides the fact it is all an obvious made up fabrication) as interpolations are additions to writings to make them seem more in line with whatever view the forger wishes to support after the fact. Conjecture? No, it was actually pre-christian, and as I provided above, easy to find within respectable writers from differing times and places. If Plutarch was the only one to write of it, OR he and the other writers were all writing about some "god" named Romulus from 800 years ago, and were writing it after jesus, then you could absolutely draw a correlation to the posit that the story of Romulus was based on jesus, or that it was fabricated to throw suspicion on the jesus story, sadly the facts do not reflect that.

Works cited:

Carrier, Richard. On the historicity of Jesus: why we might have reason for doubt. Sheffield, England: Sheffield Phoenix press, 2014. Print.

Thanks for sharing this. Good stuff.
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31-07-2015, 05:14 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 05:03 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  The real Jesus, if he ever existed, was a fundamentalist Jew who hated the Gentile world. Gentiles nailed him up naked on a cross. He didn't die for them, he was killed by them. The idea that a Christ died for the sins of the world was made up many years later by Paul. Read this paragraph again... slowly.
I read it very slowly. It doesn't help me to agree with you.

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31-07-2015, 05:16 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 05:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 05:07 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "why did He sent His Apostles to preach GOOD NEWS to the Gentiles? Why did He say to preach His Gospel to all people?"

The Jesus you know is a comic book character made up by multiple Gospel authors. That is why "he" is so often inconsistent. Read these two sentences again... slowly.
Translations of the Bible are inconsistent. That is why I do not built my faith upon the Bible only.

The bible is fabricated and predicated on pseudepigrapha, parables, allegorical writings, fiction, fantasy and forgery...as such it is a worthless document to consider as a source for anything besides a fictional and mildly entertaining book.

No one who ever wrote of jesus knew him. All major stories of the bible have been long debunked, exodus never happened, moses never existed, all life did not pop into existence, all life has internal evidence of evolution over a long period of time, the gospels were written by non eyewitness anonymous writers who penned their fictional stories under other's names, who had long been dead, etc etc.....so we can just take the bible off the table, next....book of mormon...a completely ridiucous and disproven fictional book, sooooo what exactly is your knowledge and faith of the mythical anthropocentric abrahamic-faith based god and constructed jesus founded upon?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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31-07-2015, 05:28 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 05:16 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 05:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  Translations of the Bible are inconsistent. That is why I do not built my faith upon the Bible only.

The bible is fabricated and predicated on pseudepigrapha, parables, allegorical writings, fiction, fantasy and forgery...as such it is a worthless document to consider as a source for anything besides a fictional and mildly entertaining book.

No one who ever wrote of jesus knew him. All major stories of the bible have been long debunked, exodus never happened, moses never existed, all life did not pop into existence, all life has internal evidence of evolution over a long period of time, the gospels were written by non eyewitness anonymous writers who penned their fictional stories under other's names, who had long been dead, etc etc.....so we can just take the bible off the table, next....book of mormon...a completely ridiucous and disproven fictional book, sooooo what exactly is your knowledge and faith of the mythical anthropocentric abrahamic-faith based god and constructed jesus founded upon?
All that I can say is this. I respect your personal opinion. I just can not agree with it.
P.S. But to be fair: there is some truth in your statements.

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31-07-2015, 05:29 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 05:14 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 05:03 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  The real Jesus, if he ever existed, was a fundamentalist Jew who hated the Gentile world. Gentiles nailed him up naked on a cross. He didn't die for them, he was killed by them. The idea that a Christ died for the sins of the world was made up many years later by Paul. Read this paragraph again... slowly.
I read it very slowly. It doesn't help me to agree with you.

Ok. I hear that. Would you like more evidence?
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31-07-2015, 05:39 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 05:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 05:07 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "why did He sent His Apostles to preach GOOD NEWS to the Gentiles? Why did He say to preach His Gospel to all people?"

The Jesus you know is a comic book character made up by multiple Gospel authors. That is why "he" is so often inconsistent. Read these two sentences again... slowly.
Translations of the Bible are inconsistent. That is why I do not built my faith upon the Bible only.

"Translations of the Bible are inconsistent."

Yes.

"That is why I do not built my faith upon the Bible only."

Faith is the belief in something for which there is no evidence. When we have facts faith disappears. Faith is not a virtue, it is a fault. You should not try to "build faith," but rather discover facts and truths.
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31-07-2015, 05:47 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 05:39 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Faith is the belief in something for which there is no evidence.
It is not a definition of faith. Faith is a very strong conviction that causes you to act.
First I have faith, then I act according to my faith, then I have evidence.
it is that simple

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31-07-2015, 05:48 PM
RE: Bible questions...
(31-07-2015 05:29 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 05:14 PM)Alla Wrote:  I read it very slowly. It doesn't help me to agree with you.

Ok. I hear that. Would you like more evidence?
Sure, but one at a time. I am not too bright.Weeping

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