Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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02-11-2015, 07:06 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 06:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 06:21 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  So God the Father will be greater than I. So are there different heavens like there are different gods and different earths or is there one heaven?
Yes, there are different worlds and heavens and earths. This is what those who become Gods do: there is eternal physical matter and eternal spirit matter. Gods create spirits(children) from this matter. Gods create physical worlds for those spirits.
Godhood is all about having family. Godhood is all about parenthood. Gods have children and they want their children to become like them and to have eternal life or eternal happiness. Eternal life = eternal progression and fullness of joy.
There is eternal chain of Gods. They are part of eternal FAMILY. We are links in this eternal chain. We belong to this Heavenly Family. But for now we have to experience mortality. It is like school where there are opportunities for learning and growing. It is the place to find your eternal companion and to create your own family.
Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about families. Lucifer is doing everything he can to destroy families. He knows how important it is for becoming God - Heavenly Father or Heavenly Mother.

Except for the detail that there is absolutely no evidence of any of this. None. Zilch. Nada. Zip.

It's all made up. Drinking Beverage

You need deprogramming from your cult.Dodgy

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-11-2015, 07:12 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 07:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  Except for the detail that there is absolutely no evidence of any of this. None. Zilch. Nada. Zip.
It is true. We don't have any evidence of that. If we had we would have perfect knowledge. But this is the point - to leave God's presence NOT to have perfect knowledge but to have faith so we can learn and grow. We can't learn and grow without faith.

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02-11-2015, 07:28 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 11:42 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 07:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Burnt sacrifices where a misconception by the greed of man. Sacrifice is to be of want of the flesh(greed). Scripture of course is written by man. Faith was before written history so of course it was handed down by word of mouth. Nature and all the explainable and inexplicable are of God. It is the same as it was back them. Where people less technologically advanced in ancient times and time before history? Yes. Where there more superstitious due to a lack of in-depth understanding of how things work? Sure. Where they more in touch with a part of reality that connects to us all and connects us all, and also more understanding that all is not of man or contained by the thoughts and ideals of man? Definitely. I don't refute that man has written scripture. I deny that they did it wholly out of greed as opposed to out of the want to pass on things that they knew where pertinent to existence.
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Peace

I agree to the obvious assertions that they were less technologically astute, and more superstitious than we are now. More in touch with "part of reality that connects to us all" is philosophical word salad. It isn't reality. It is the faith based, and philosophical perspective of the possibility of a transcendental world that has zero tangible evidence. We can sit around the campfire, drink wine, and slap our lips together making up "wouldn't it be cool if..." scenarios all day, but that doesn't make them real without evidence, even if every single person in the world believed them. They would simply be a fact less, physical expression of neurological flatulence.

What did they "know was pertinent to existence?" They didn't "know" anything that has zero proof. You don't "know" Christ, god or any of this child like world you embrace. You may have faith (belief in something without evidence), you may hope it exists, you may even believe it exists based on faith and self delusion, but you don't "know".


(02-11-2015 09:48 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I'm calm. Put words in my mouth if you want.

Man is the only observable thing I know of that doesn't show unwavering direction under God for the sake of existence. So yes man and greed responsible for the negativity and division in scripture that was written by man. Is that difficult for you to understand? The Torah was passed of through word of mouth at one point. It is easy to see that through this transfer of knowledge the powers that be at that time would have greedily taken the opportunity to set themselves up in privilege over others for their own gain.

Okay pops, now bear with me for a minute. Man is hugely fallible in regards to maintaining accuracy of oral stories. I know you remember the telephone game right? Man also LOVES to tell stories, and the bigger the story, the more magic in the story, the better the story is. Man also LOVES to exaggerate stories. They get bigger with each subsequent retelling. Sprinkle in personal agenda, superstition and ignorance of the laws of nature and you get the oldest myths which were promulgated into what became the Torah. The tall tales that are spun in the Torah by the never-existed moses were taken from older Sumerian, greek and Babylonian myths.

Now this is where you will probably interject "god's infinite power ensured the integrity of the word". If and when you say that, it is a checkmate win for me. Because the "infinite power of god ensured the integrity blah blah blah" apparently didn't happen. Which is why there is an epic level of inconsistencies, lies, forgeries, allegorical writings, parables, pseudepigrapha, fiction, and fantasy within the bible.

I can, have and will continue to prove that to great detail.

Smartass
Really not sure what you are getting at, but I hope your vent helped you. You can continue to do what your heart desires, as can I. Most science isn't proof of too much. It's mostly educated guesses and theories that don't even correlate with one another. I personally take scientific evidence very seriously, but science in no way refuted God, nor does it explain the origin of our existence. To be honest I would most probably still be atheist if I hadn't literally been saved by God or an angel or Jesus or messenger, or whatever you want to call it. You can say I am delusional, you can say the Creator is a myth, but you can't back it up at all with proof. I, on the other hand have proof of what I know. It isn't proof to any third party like scientifically tested theories but it is proof for me. I've read a considerable amount of Sumerian texts. The Torah doesn't seem to be copied from it in my personal opinion. Do you prefer attempting to pick apart the Torah over other books because it is the most convenient for your purposes? Why not try it with the Gita, or the book of Enoch, or even the Exeter book? Everyone knows the Torah has discrepancies and other flaws by man. There are entire books of the OT that describe how God's people went all over the land wiping out opposition. Granted, this was an era of war, but the reason it goes into detail about the many tribes that they killed and totally decimated is to show that God's word will always be fulfilled. Anyway, basically there are parts of the OT that I wonder about, but the vast majority of the book is inspired by God and written by men that held firm to their beliefs. You ask what knowledge they had as opposed to us. Well they had direction. They looked after one another. They knew th st all existence wasn't caused by chance, chaos, or man. They knew that they didn't know everything, but what they did know was pertinent to their existence and the rest of it too. Today people actually think there is no right and wrong, no good or bad, that all is what you make it and it is take what you want or don't get it. They knew a lot of things that we seem to neglect. You mention nature as if it isn't of God. I don't really understand what makes existence or nature not of the thing that started it or made it. What laws of nature where they unaware of that lead them lie about existence? What made them ignorant to reality? I'm honestly curious of your opinion as you seem to consider yourself an expert on what is real and what can deemed false based on lack of evidence. Why do you adamantly refute things because someone else hasn't shown them to you yet. Don't you understand that just because something hasn't been proven one way or another doesn't mean it can be excused as a possibility? Science can explain a good bit, but there is a good bit that it hasn't even really scratched the surface of.

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Peace
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02-11-2015, 07:33 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 04:53 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Can you please define in physical terms what constitutes "spiritual matter"? I understand that matter is anything that has mass, and mass takes up space. The word spiritual defines something not having any physical or material form. To me, this means that the term spiritual matter is an obvious oxymoron. Can you clarify this?
God didn't explain in details what "spiritual matter" is. He only revealed that it exists. For example, God revealed that we are spirits and we obtain physical bodies in this life. Because spirit is material he or she has form, size, mass, color, gender, intelligence.
Many believe that spirit is immaterial, God is immaterial. They don't understand that by believing this they deny spirit and God. There are no immaterial things in real world.
Spiritual matter is more pure and more refine than physical matter according to the revelation from God.
(02-11-2015 04:53 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Can you also define in non-metaphysical terms the meaning of the phrase Holy "Ghost"? (Metaphysics is concerned with abstract thoughts or subjects, such as existence, perception, causality, or truth.) Specifically, I'd like you to define what you mean (from a personal perspective, rather than a biblical one) when you use the term ghost.
Thanks.
Ghost is another term for Spirit. The Holy Ghost is one of Gods. He is male and He is intelligent Being. He doesn't have physical body yet. His mission is to testify about the truth.

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02-11-2015, 07:34 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 07:12 PM)Alla Wrote:  We can't learn and grow without faith.

Bullshit. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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02-11-2015, 07:37 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 07:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 07:12 PM)Alla Wrote:  We can't learn and grow without faith.

Bullshit. Drinking Beverage

why? could you explain it, please?
Note: I didn't say: we can't learn and grow without faith in God. I said that we can not learn and grow without faith.

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02-11-2015, 07:37 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 10:32 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  POPS - you have admitted that you cannot trust the scriptures (since it was written by man from word of mouth, and that man likely altered them for his own purpose).

So I will ask, why pretend to know things you do not and cannot know?
Firstly, I trust scripture of many religions and look to them for guidance. Second the very core of my belief is based in my personal salvation and what I learned from it. I read a lot of scripture. And although every once in a while I will read something that doesn't agree with what I know, I understand that I do not know everything. I assure you; I am not pretending at all. God is verified to me personally on many different levels pretty much daily even though I still falter and stumble down the path that I have asked to be lead down. Why do you pretend to know what another knows as if you are them? That's called assumption. It differs from what I know because when I'm guessing or simply stating an opinion I usually let it be known. Salvation, conscience, experience, scripture, and science/ math are the bases of my knowledge and what I know.
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02-11-2015, 07:42 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 07:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 07:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  Bullshit. Drinking Beverage

why? could you explain it, please?
Note: I didn't say: we can't learn and grow without faith in God. I said that we can not learn and grow without faith.
Don't worry about Chas. He is just a big teddy bear. I have grown to like him.

No homo.
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02-11-2015, 07:46 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 07:42 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 07:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  why? could you explain it, please?
Note: I didn't say: we can't learn and grow without faith in God. I said that we can not learn and grow without faith.
Don't worry about Chas. He is just a big teddy bear. I have grown to like him.

No homo.
I don't worry. Smile I like him for a long time.

English is my second language.
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02-11-2015, 09:40 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 07:42 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 07:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  why? could you explain it, please?
Note: I didn't say: we can't learn and grow without faith in God. I said that we can not learn and grow without faith.
Don't worry about Chas. He is just a big teddy bear. I have grown to like him.

No homo.

Every time I hear that phrase, I think of this:
[Image: b9fe6f897147d675772fda2496cdf72c.jpg]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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