Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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02-11-2015, 09:56 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 07:28 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Really not sure what you are getting at, but I hope your vent helped you. You can continue to do what your heart desires, as can I. Most science isn't proof of too much. It's mostly educated guesses and theories that don't even correlate with one another. I personally take scientific evidence very seriously, but science in no way refuted God, nor does it explain the origin of our existence. To be honest I would most probably still be atheist if I hadn't literally been saved by God or an angel or Jesus or messenger, or whatever you want to call it. You can say I am delusional, you can say the Creator is a myth, but you can't back it up at all with proof. I, on the other hand have proof of what I know. It isn't proof to any third party like scientifically tested theories but it is proof for me. I've read a considerable amount of Sumerian texts. The Torah doesn't seem to be copied from it in my personal opinion. Do you prefer attempting to pick apart the Torah over other books because it is the most convenient for your purposes? Why not try it with the Gita, or the book of Enoch, or even the Exeter book? Everyone knows the Torah has discrepancies and other flaws by man. There are entire books of the OT that describe how God's people went all over the land wiping out opposition. Granted, this was an era of war, but the reason it goes into detail about the many tribes that they killed and totally decimated is to show that God's word will always be fulfilled. Anyway, basically there are parts of the OT that I wonder about, but the vast majority of the book is inspired by God and written by men that held firm to their beliefs. You ask what knowledge they had as opposed to us. Well they had direction. They looked after one another. They knew th st all existence wasn't caused by chance, chaos, or man. They knew that they didn't know everything, but what they did know was pertinent to their existence and the rest of it too. Today people actually think there is no right and wrong, no good or bad, that all is what you make it and it is take what you want or don't get it. They knew a lot of things that we seem to neglect. You mention nature as if it isn't of God. I don't really understand what makes existence or nature not of the thing that started it or made it. What laws of nature where they unaware of that lead them lie about existence? What made them ignorant to reality? I'm honestly curious of your opinion as you seem to consider yourself an expert on what is real and what can deemed false based on lack of evidence. Why do you adamantly refute things because someone else hasn't shown them to you yet. Don't you understand that just because something hasn't been proven one way or another doesn't mean it can be excused as a possibility? Science can explain a good bit, but there is a good bit that it hasn't even really scratched the surface of.

Thanks,
Peace

Paragraphs, man. For the love of god and all that is holy, paragraphs.

#sigh
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02-11-2015, 10:40 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(01-11-2015 06:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  You don't have to verify this. If you verify then you can not have faith in God. If you don't have faith in God but you have perfect knowledge about Him then you can not do what you came to do here on Earth.

Then Douglas Adams was right? God really does disappear in a poof of logic? Your post is an almost verbatim quote!
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02-11-2015, 10:48 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2015 10:58 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 07:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 07:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  Bullshit. Drinking Beverage

why? could you explain it, please?
Note: I didn't say: we can't learn and grow without faith in God. I said that we can not learn and grow without faith.

Faith is, used in religious context, "belief without evidence, or in the face of contradictory evidence".

It's a great way to be wrong about everything, and conveniently stay wrong about everything; because there is no way to correct for any mistakes. If you have "faith" in the wrong answers, you will just continue to be wrong; and with no means to correct the situation because you have "faith" you are right.

Faith is a human failure, a shortcoming, a flawed way of thinking; it is anything but a virtue or anything to be upheld or aspired to. It represents the very worst in human thinking.

We should all strive to do without it, for the betterment of the entire species and everything else we share this planet with.

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02-11-2015, 11:11 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2015 11:21 PM by TheMrBillShow.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmosflat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 07:28 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I personally take scientific evidence very seriously, but science in no way refuted God, nor does it explain the origin of our existence.

Since science is a means to discover the workings of the natural world and god is, by definition, supernatural, how do you figure science having anything to say on the subject at all? What means is there to detect the supernatural? We'd have to know this before science could even begin to address the question of god.

And I'm not sure how you're defining "existence" in the context you've used it but the study of human evolution is a fascinating one. Far more intricate, lovely, and compelling than any myth cooked up in our ignorance. Give it a whirl sometime. You might find it of worth.

(02-11-2015 07:28 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  There are entire books of the OT that describe how God's people went all over the land wiping out opposition. Granted, this was an era of war, but the reason it goes into detail about the many tribes that they killed and totally decimated is to show that God's word will always be fulfilled.

Can you please do me a favor? I'd like you to really think about what you're saying here. You're basically rationalizing genocide. This god is willing to allow the wholesale slaughter of entire groups of people. Think about what that means. The elderly, the disabled, the sick, children, pregnant women- all wiped out in brutal fashion but, apparently all A-OK because it convinces people that the word of their god has been fulfilled. Can you understand how psychotic that sounds to the rest of us?

(02-11-2015 07:28 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Anyway, basically there are parts of the OT that I wonder about, but the vast majority of the book is inspired by God and written by men that held firm to their beliefs.

And we know this because of what, exactly? Also, if the "vast majority" of the book is divinely inspired, how can we tell which parts are and which aren't? Why would god risk having even a bit of his book mistakenly written by fallible humans? How about leaving no rooming for error? Isn't eternity in the balance? Why the ambiguity?

There is no "I" in "team" but there is a broken and mixed up "me."
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02-11-2015, 11:17 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 11:11 PM)TheMrBillShow Wrote:  Why the ambiguity?

His god hides in the ambiguity. Drinking Beverage

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02-11-2015, 11:24 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 10:26 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 09:48 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I'm calm. Put words in my mouth if you want.

Man is the only observable thing I know of that doesn't show unwavering direction under God for the sake of existence. So yes man and greed responsible for the negativity and division in scripture that was written by man. Is that difficult for you to understand? The Torah was passed of through word of mouth at one point. It is easy to see that through this transfer of knowledge the powers that be at that time would have greedily taken the opportunity to set themselves up in privilege over others for their own gain.

Can't you say that of all scriptures where man writes about their god/prophets/savior/messiah? How would you determine what is attributed to man or god?

And yes it is difficult for me to understand since I am not suffering from a total mindF$$K as you are. The whole thing was derived and written by man - that should not be hard to understand for any rational and thinking folk.
When your an atheist from young childhood until late 20s or so and you literally get saved it kinda sticks with you. I knew there was a God for 4 or 5 years before I read any scripture. I read the Old Testament first. A nominal portion seemed, incomprehensible to me and just, not right. But the majority of it resonated with me at a core level and matched up really well with what I believed about the nature of God and the direction of man under God. Later, at some point I began to wonder what the differences were in the other scriptures, and if they believed in the same God as Christians/ Jews. I started reading the Quran, and the book of Enoch. And what do you know all these monotheistic religions indeed worship the same one creator God. And beyond that they teach the same stories with the same people, lessons, and the paths to righteousness under the direction of the one GOD. Since then I have been checking in on other religious texts such as the Gita and the Exeter book. Amazingly all these base scriptures not only all speak of one God, but they all describe the means to follow the will of the Creator of all existence, the merciful, the all subsisting, and all knowing. I found just today that some polytheists actually understand that their is only one source for all other existence. The point is that you can actually read scriptures and compare them, and in doing such in an unbiased, selfless, inquisitive manner you can discern things that may be put in them out of greed(which in most cases is very little). All the rest pretty much all agrees and has the same general code of conduct or way of being in the direction of God for the benefit of all existence.

Really, in many cases, as far as the bible is concerned, and the book of Enoch, it is written in triple and double entendres. And the ability for people to grasp the more hidden truths within seem to be very few and far between. You can call me nuckin futs if you want. The facts are that I am indeed quite out of the ordinary, and also pretty damned intelligent and perceptive. I'm not doing to brag, but I will say that dumb and crazy aren't generally the same. Nor does social dysfunction equate to lack of introspection and time to think. People here like to say that I just feel. In reality I am an intp with a significant IQ and real world problem solving skills. My emotions aren't of the general type, as I am not of the general type.

I know most of you feel like you know there isn't a God, and that you won't learn anything from what I say, but keeping up some unneeded, negative front out of arrogance or pride is a sure fire way to not learn shit.
Thanks.

Peace
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02-11-2015, 11:43 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 12:54 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I honestly don't have any issues with Mormons. I honestly respect their family values. Regardless of your beliefs, I think a lot of good can come from looking at the traditional Mormon family values as something to emulate.
Mormonism and native American belief systems are of the rightly guided to some extent for sure. I haven't studied either in depth though. The Bahia Faith seems rightly guided from what I have read so far. The Druze Faith is interesting but difficult to attain any base book or other means of inquiry for.
Division isn't part of what is next as much as unity under God. The hard division comes later if at all.

The thing is that you can't go off of what people tell you 100%. You have to do the leg work yourself. You have to find out for yourself.
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02-11-2015, 11:54 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 01:37 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(01-11-2015 03:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  There is no claim in Genesis that God created light.

"And God said let there be light, and there was light."

This is a direct quote from the King James Bible. Sure sounds like God creating light. It's the same formula as the rest of the creation. If he didn't create light, he didn't create anything.
Yeah. The light is of God and he created it, and he divided it from the darkness. He changed the darkness, but didn't create it. He used it to create.
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02-11-2015, 11:58 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 11:24 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I know most of you feel like you know there isn't a God, and that you won't learn anything from what I say, but keeping up some unneeded, negative front out of arrogance or pride is a sure fire way to not learn shit.

Bah. That ain't arrogance. I AM God. My own personal lord and savior. My own forgiver. My own redeemer. My own judge and jury. So sayeth The Word.

Now that's some arrogance right there. Blasphemous even. Tongue

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03-11-2015, 12:00 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 02:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 12:26 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Alla, are you a Christian? What denomination are you?
I see you already have the answer.
(02-11-2015 12:26 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Why do you believe that "we are all gods"? Do you not understand that Psalm 82 is saying that God is above all other gods and that the word "gods" had quotations? This is ironic because you claim that we are all gods by using a scripture that is intended to rebuke anyone or anything that claims to be a god.
There is a difference between gods and Gods. We are gods but we have potential to become Gods like our Heavenly Father. This is why we left our father and came here: to obtain physical bodies and to have all necessary experiences to become like Gods. Like our Heavenly father.
P.S. I disagree with your understanding of Psalm 82. I agree with teachings of true prophets of God and with Spirit.
Wholly subsidiary I'm guessing? Secondly, technically how is this achieved? I'm just wondering, no disrespect.
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