Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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04-11-2015, 07:21 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(04-11-2015 07:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 07:02 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  God is so powerful that He is beyond compression.

Winzip is of the devil Big Grin
I know right! But windows 10 is also something that is conjured by Lucifer for the destruction of souls.
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04-11-2015, 07:21 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(04-11-2015 07:02 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  However, when applied to a being such as God, it only deepens my amazement and reinforces my belief that God is so powerful that He is beyond compression. But when applied to anything else that is not assumed to be all powerful it doesn't make sense to me.

What baffles me is how you don't see the double standard that you are applying.
The idea of eternal existence is difficult to grasp and makes you doubt it applies to the universe but makes you more sure that it applies to an all-powerful, intelligent being. If anything, the complexity of the god concept makes that much less likely to just exist without cause, especially when compared to simple raw energy.

We know that the universe exists (assuming we don't accept solipsism) so we don't need to demonstrate that. To posit that something else is necessary to have created it but then also posit that the same reasons that something is required don't apply to the meta level is special pleading.

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04-11-2015, 07:30 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(03-11-2015 10:10 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  This is just a general question to anyone who wants to answer. Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about someone who claims to have had a vision of some kind where God actually spoke to them and was so convinced in his experience that despite knowing there could be a reasonable explanation in the realms of Psychology and Physiology he believed it to be true.

I know this is a run on sentence... but eh.

Verily I say unto you - they're fucking nuts. As a prophet, I'm one of them. Big Grin

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04-11-2015, 07:42 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(03-11-2015 07:23 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I dunno. I just can't understand how something could exist without anyone or anything creating it.

Your incredulity is not an argument.

Quote:Perhaps my mind is just too simple (many would argue that is why I am a theist....lol). I have to admit that although it is ridiculous for some to believe in an all powerful God, I find it unimaginable for there to be anything in existence that was never created by anyone or anything.

Who or what created this God? Consider

Quote:Which is partially why it is hard for me to accept the concept of the big bang theory where everything in existence came from nothing by nothing for no reason.

Are you aware of the rather sizable amount of evidence for the theory?

Everything after the initial point is well-supported. No one has an answer to what occurred at time = 0.

Quote:Talk about occam's razor. What seems to have the least assumptions? You have:
A. Everything was created by absolutely nothing for absolutely no reason.

No. It is as yet not known what happened at tâ‚€.

Quote:B. There is a God who did not really create anything but rather he just "flipped on the light switch" and the animal switch and the bird switch and the sky switch and the man switch ect... like he was playing some cosmic minecraft game in a "you too can become a god" system that even God has to follow. Which by the way, nothing or nobody ever created ever...or

Who or what created this God? Consider

Quote:C. An all powerful God who always existed created everything from nothing because basically he could.

If God always existed, then why is it difficult to suppose that what makes up our universe always existed? Consider

Occam's Razor - cut out the middle man.

Quote:Now I know there are many who will argue their case but my point is that for me, I personally have to believe that a God has to exist because it is the only explanation that makes the most sense to me for the origins of the universe.

Who or what created this God? Consider

Quote:It may not be any God that anyone knows or understands. Ok I am done venting. But yeah.. I have to believe in a God because I am too simple to believe the origin of the universe could have been from anything else.

I just noticed I said "flipped on a man switch" hay yo!

Your incredulity is not a compelling argument.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-11-2015, 07:46 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(03-11-2015 10:21 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Didn't say God was directing evolution. It is safe to say that man is the most significant influence currently, based on your descriptions of evolution. Real advancement will come by unified direction under God for the sake of all existence, not just our own.

Which God? There is no evidence that any gods direct anything. The only evidence is that delusional people claim a god is directing them.

Quote:Oh, and technically, I don't arbitrarily do too many things. I would never assign things to God that are of man(greed). Also wouldn't assign things to man that are of God, a specially not in a nonchalant manner, or without at least contemplating the gravity of such a statement.

You've arbitrarily assigned all of creation to God, so there's that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-11-2015, 07:48 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(03-11-2015 10:27 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 04:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  A claim unsupported by evidence does not make it to the decision table to be judged right or wrong; it is summarily dismissed.
How convenient.

At the very least it should be classed as currently unverifiable through standard scientific means.

It is the assertion of fact or truth that is dismissed.

The same concept proposed as a hypothesis merits attention.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-11-2015, 07:50 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(03-11-2015 03:36 PM)Alla Wrote:  Film makers say Genesis claims God created light, Genesis does not claim such thing. I don't get it. Why do they say this?

Context. God creates heavens/earth. God states "let there be light." How is light not created?

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04-11-2015, 07:55 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(04-11-2015 07:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 07:02 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  God is so powerful that He is beyond compression.

Winzip is of the devil Big Grin

Winzip is the optimum of the mass storage. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-11-2015, 08:06 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(04-11-2015 07:02 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I am very interested to hear what it says. I assure everyone that I will watch it and let everyone know what I thought about it.

Here's another one for ya - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg

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04-11-2015, 08:16 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(03-11-2015 06:02 PM)Alla Wrote:   to Grasshopper
Imagine unlimited space. Somewhere in this unlimited space there are great parts which have no stars, no sources of light. Vast of darkness. God created Earth. God wants to have life on Earth. It must be light from a star. So, God says :"Let it be light" and then causes Earth to move to a place where there is source of light- stars or star. Now there is light on Earth and plants can grow and waters can be divided. Waters below(see) and waters above(clouds)
So, did God create light? Or did God cause Earth to move to a place where there is light?
While Earth in this place God causes stars to be organized in that part of heaven where it is still dark and where Earth was before. In this part God starts to organize Solar System. Later God causes Earth to move back and where Solar System is organized. It is when Adam fell. Everything changed on Earth.
what is heaven? there are many meanings of this word. heaven is place where God lives. Heaven is sky. Heaven is state of happiness.

One problem with this explanation is that God didn't get around to creating any sources of light (sun, "moon", stars, etc.) until several days later. They didn't exist yet when he said "let there be light".

You are basically writing your own fiction loosely based on Genesis. None of that crazy stuff is in Genesis. But God creating light is in Genesis.
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