Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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05-11-2015, 06:33 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 06:18 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 09:44 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I was a real atheist for over 20 years. Still believe in evolution for the most part.

I'm sorry, do you mean to tell me you had studied the origin of the Abrahamic religions, understood their archaeological, societal, and historical context, understood that they were just iterations of other contemporary and precursor stories? That you at one time valued evidence, rationality, and the scientific method; and was comfortable with doubt and the fact that "I don't know" is not only an acceptable answer, but often times the best one?

And you gave that all up in favor of emotions, irrationality, and belief without evidence?

Sure you did jackass, sure you did. Anything else you'd like to lie about, or could you kindly stop being an equivocating lying piece of shit?
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05-11-2015, 06:47 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(04-11-2015 09:44 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 05:29 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel is one of the first books my parents sent me, when I announced I had deconverted. I sent it back, annotated and footnoted in the margins, for the myriad errors and logical problems it contains. I credit that book (and one by Phillip Johnson called Darwin on Trial, against evolution) more than any other single document as the reason for my confidence about atheism. I no longer have that book, having sent it back with the footnotes/annotations, to my parents. However, I do still have the copy of The Case for Faith still in my personal library.

I think the book is truly written by Strobel to sell to Christians, not to atheists, as a way to comfort them and think "hey our experts have answers, too!" More importantly, Strobel's use of the "I used to be an atheist" argument is sketchy, for reasons that are well laid out here:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamin...ike-you-2/

As the author points out, this rebuttial is a little like the "no True Scotsman" argument in that it draws a distinction between well-informed atheists (like me) and apathetic types (what my brother calls his belief: "Ijustdontgiveafuckism"), but he thinks it is well-supported that only the second type is prone to the "I used to be an atheist" type of conversion to religious fundamentalism. I was given a number of books by "ex-atheists", including the famous Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, and I noticed in all of them the pattern of apathetic-type atheism.

That's not to say one cannot become a Christian after knowing as much as we know about the history of Christianity and the philosophical claims thereof, just that it's exceptionally unlikely, and we should be skeptical of those who claim to be "ex-atheists" turned Biblical Apologists. The more-likely explanation is that they're using a gimmick to sell their books to the credulous who really, really want to believe their side is "Saving souls for Jesus", and that this guy can/will do it if they just BUY HIS BOOK and give it to their little lost son/daughter/friend/neighbor.
I was a real atheist for over 20 years. Still believe in evolution for the most part.

The term "REAL" doesn't at all cover what distinction you think you mean by that. Just like Kirk Cameron saying he was a "devout" atheist. There is no defined argument. What do you think real is supposed to mean?

Your pattern is that you seem or truly just want to be insistent that there is "order" in the universe. That "Good" as you define it is something real and over negative bad things, and that drives the universe and thing such as evolution. Do you think if you could have evidence against that point you could change your perspective upon it?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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05-11-2015, 07:06 AM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2015 07:17 AM by jason_delisle.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 06:47 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 09:44 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I was a real atheist for over 20 years. Still believe in evolution for the most part.

The term "REAL" doesn't at all cover what distinction you think you mean by that. Just like Kirk Cameron saying he was a "devout" atheist. There is no defined argument. What do you think real is supposed to mean?

Your pattern is that you seem or truly just want to be insistent that there is "order" in the universe. That "Good" as you define it is something real and over negative bad things, and that drives the universe and thing such as evolution. Do you think if you could have evidence against that point you could change your perspective upon it?
Ok everyone.... I think I am really on to something here however I still have a delima. I think I can finally answer the age old question on "who is the one true Scotsmen? " but I can only narrow it down to two.

Is it?
[IMG][Image: fb40ada1443903e5601129610d089c9c.jpg][/IMG]


Or is it?

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05-11-2015, 07:07 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(31-10-2015 06:57 PM)bussta33 Wrote:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tGN3TWzSZs
Smfh. Genesis couldn't be more off.

You haven't seen anything until you see a fundie use advanced science to prove gravity doesn't exist so he can prove the geocentric model.

Getting soft-banned from that place was the best thing they could have done for me.
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05-11-2015, 07:45 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(04-11-2015 10:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 09:44 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I was a real atheist for over 20 years. Still believe in evolution for the most part.

What part don't you believe? Consider

The biology part. Dodgy

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05-11-2015, 08:08 AM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2015 08:13 AM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 05:45 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 11:38 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  So basically.....every single explanation that has ever been given for anything that can actually be supported with demonstrable evidence?
Is gravitational theory a theistic or atheistic explanation?
Is Evolutionary Biology an theistic or atheistic explanation?
Geology? Taxonomy? Calculus? Embryology? Radiology? Plate tectonics? Is the explanation for microwave radiation "god dun it!"?

Through out the entirety of human history at no point have we arived at any explanation, that we could demonstrate was accurate, that a god/s were responsible. The god explanation has a track record of successful explaining phenomena of exactly 0%.

But oh no this time it must be right!

You have exactly no demonstrable evidence that a god exists, let alone that it could even create a universe if it wanted to, and you have a track record of God being the correct explanation that has been wrong 100% of the time.

If I was to say that the universe as we know it was created due the my good friend Brian microwaving a pizza pocket for too long and on too high a setting I'd actually be more rational because I can at least show that Brian, pizza pockets, and microwaves actually exist. Tongue
Read the post. It was specifically in regards to the explanations on the origins of the universe. I don't have time to repeat myself for every new person to pop up on this thread.

Oh I know it was just for the origin of the universe, that's the gap where your rediculus God of the Gaps currently lives. My point was that EVERY SINGLE explanation in the past that had god as the explanation as been wrong 100% of the time.

Why would this ONE, currently unexplained, phenomena be explained by "God dun it!"? Why would you believe that's the case when the track record is 100% wrong 100% of the time?

You think "god dun it" and "there are natural explanations for the origin of the universe" are on the same level and garner the same degree of believability and they are not and they don't . At all.

If you want to posit god as the explanation they you have to show your god exists and has the ability and inclination to create a universe. Then explain how God was able to do this without the existence of cause and effect outside a framework of time.

Sees like your only reason to think god dun it is cause you want that to be the answer.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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05-11-2015, 08:23 AM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2015 08:26 AM by jason_delisle.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 08:08 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 05:45 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Read the post. It was specifically in regards to the explanations on the origins of the universe. I don't have time to repeat myself for every new person to pop up on this thread.

Oh I know it was just for the origin of the universe, that's the gap where your rediculus God of the Gaps currently lives. My point was that EVERY SINGLE explanation in the past that had god as the explanation as been wrong 100% of the time.

Why would this ONE, currently unexplained, phenomena be explained by "God dun it!"? Why would you believe that's the case when the track record is 100% wrong 100% of the time?

You think "god dun it" and "there are natural explanations for the origin of the universe" are on the same level and garner the same degree of believability and they are not and they don't . At all.

If you want to posit god as the explanation they you have to show your god exists and has the ability and inclination to create a universe. Then explain how God was able to do this without the existence of cause and effect outside a framework of time.

Sees like your only reason to think god dun it is cause you want that to be the answer.
Why would I have any reason to prove anything to anyone? If someone asks me what I believe and why I will answer those questions in order to feed their curiosity. To attempt to prove anything is to attempt to change someone's position that I deem incorrect. I am not here to change anyone's position. If someone asks me what I believe and why, I will answer. But in no way do I feel obligated to prove anything to anyone for any reason.
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05-11-2015, 08:38 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 08:23 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:08 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Oh I know it was just for the origin of the universe, that's the gap where your rediculus God of the Gaps currently lives. My point was that EVERY SINGLE explanation in the past that had god as the explanation as been wrong 100% of the time.

Why would this ONE, currently unexplained, phenomena be explained by "God dun it!"? Why would you believe that's the case when the track record is 100% wrong 100% of the time?

You think "god dun it" and "there are natural explanations for the origin of the universe" are on the same level and garner the same degree of believability and they are not and they don't . At all.

If you want to posit god as the explanation they you have to show your god exists and has the ability and inclination to create a universe. Then explain how God was able to do this without the existence of cause and effect outside a framework of time.

Sees like your only reason to think god dun it is cause you want that to be the answer.
Why would I have any reason to prove anything to anyone? If someone asks me what I believe and why I will answer those questions in order to feed their curiosity. To attempt to prove anything is to attempt to change someone's position that I deem incorrect. I am not here to change anyone's position. If someone asks me what I believe and why, I will answer. But in no way do I feel obligated to prove anything to anyone for any reason.

Is that what you believe? Why?

Is there some value or simplicity to what you believe being expressed that would cause you to do that?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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05-11-2015, 08:42 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 08:38 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:23 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Why would I have any reason to prove anything to anyone? If someone asks me what I believe and why I will answer those questions in order to feed their curiosity. To attempt to prove anything is to attempt to change someone's position that I deem incorrect. I am not here to change anyone's position. If someone asks me what I believe and why, I will answer. But in no way do I feel obligated to prove anything to anyone for any reason.

Is that what you believe? Why?
I believe a god (specifically the God of Abraham ) created the universe with a power so great that no man can comprehend. Why? Because it makes more sense in my opinion than nothing created everything for no reason.
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05-11-2015, 08:45 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 08:42 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:38 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Is that what you believe? Why?
I believe a god (specifically the God of Abraham ) created the universe with a power so great that no man can comprehend. Why? Because it makes more sense in my opinion than nothing created everything for no reason.

That's not what I was asking, but okay. Cool

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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