Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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05-11-2015, 08:46 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 08:42 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:38 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Is that what you believe? Why?
I believe a god (specifically the God of Abraham ) created the universe with a power so great that no man can comprehend. Why? Because it makes more sense in my opinion than nothing created everything for no reason.

Why the God of Abraham? Or are we back to book recommendations?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-11-2015, 08:49 AM
People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 08:42 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:38 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Is that what you believe? Why?
I believe a god (specifically the God of Abraham ) created the universe with a power so great that no man can comprehend. Why? Because it makes more sense in my opinion than nothing created everything for no reason.

How can you draw a direct correlation between the universe being created and your personal favorite deity? Why not Shiva, Odin, Zues, or Mithras?

The most intellectually honest position, if you insist that a deity is the cause, is that it's impersonal and all of man's religions are off the mark, which leads you to a pretty useless god concept.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-11-2015, 08:54 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 08:45 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:42 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I believe a god (specifically the God of Abraham ) created the universe with a power so great that no man can comprehend. Why? Because it makes more sense in my opinion than nothing created everything for no reason.

That's not what I was asking, but okay. Cool
Oh ok. I gotcha.... silly me. You were asking why I don't believe I should have to prove anything? Is that correct? Well ask yourself, why does someone try to prove something to someone else. It is because one person's view differs from another's. If someone wants to change the view of others they must provide evidence to prove or disprove the opposition. But if someone has no intention of changing anyone's opinion what obligation does that person have to provide proof or evidence? Unless you want me to provide proof that I believe something? Well telling you I believe something seems like sufficient evidence to prove it.
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05-11-2015, 09:37 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 08:46 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:42 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I believe a god (specifically the God of Abraham ) created the universe with a power so great that no man can comprehend. Why? Because it makes more sense in my opinion than nothing created everything for no reason.

Why the God of Abraham? Or are we back to book recommendations?
I am not recommending anything to anyone for any reason. I have my reasons to believe. I guess the simplest reason is why not? I personally have no reason not to believe. It wouldn't make my life any different. I would actually add that my faith has done more good in my life than not. What incentives are there for me not to believe in the God of Abraham?
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05-11-2015, 09:38 AM
RE: People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 08:49 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:42 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I believe a god (specifically the God of Abraham ) created the universe with a power so great that no man can comprehend. Why? Because it makes more sense in my opinion than nothing created everything for no reason.

How can you draw a direct correlation between the universe being created and your personal favorite deity? Why not Shiva, Odin, Zues, or Mithras?

The most intellectually honest position, if you insist that a deity is the cause, is that it's impersonal and all of man's religions are off the mark, which leads you to a pretty useless god concept.
Still makes more sense than any other explanation in my opinion.
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05-11-2015, 09:40 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 08:23 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:08 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Oh I know it was just for the origin of the universe, that's the gap where your rediculus God of the Gaps currently lives. My point was that EVERY SINGLE explanation in the past that had god as the explanation as been wrong 100% of the time.

Why would this ONE, currently unexplained, phenomena be explained by "God dun it!"? Why would you believe that's the case when the track record is 100% wrong 100% of the time?

You think "god dun it" and "there are natural explanations for the origin of the universe" are on the same level and garner the same degree of believability and they are not and they don't . At all.

If you want to posit god as the explanation they you have to show your god exists and has the ability and inclination to create a universe. Then explain how God was able to do this without the existence of cause and effect outside a framework of time.

Sees like your only reason to think god dun it is cause you want that to be the answer.
Why would I have any reason to prove anything to anyone?

Because you are positing that god is a real explanation for a real phenomena in the real world and you are defending this as a reasonable and rational position to hold, superior to the alternitive, until someone proves you wrong.
You don't get to offer as an explanation something and then make the argument you don't have to justify or support that explanation. That's your bloody job as the person offering the explanation.

Your making claims and then running off to hide behind the, tediously common among thiests to the point of being a trope, position that you don't have to defend your assertions because your not trying to convince anyone. Thats not how it works. If you want to share your beliefs and then refuse to support, justify, or defend them in anyway what so ever the second they are challenged your free to do that but it adds nothing to the conversation and it shows how infantile and indefensible those beliefs actually are.

You're just a another theist with a god of the Gaps belief and a hand full of fallacies with no substance to your beliefs.

I do enjoy your sense of humor though, even if you do seem to like to dodge any kinda criticism leveled your way as fast as you possibly can.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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05-11-2015, 09:47 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 08:54 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  It is because one person's view differs from another's. If someone wants to change the view of others they must provide evidence to prove or disprove the opposition.
Wrong. You must provide evidence once you make a claim, your intent to convert other people is irrelevant it's the making the claim that counts.

This is an obfuscation commonly employed by theists, a way of making whatever nonsense claims they want without accepting the responsibility of supporting those claims which they never can and know they can't.

Do you have any demonstrable evidence to support the conclusion you yourself have come to believe or have you simply come here to act like a theistic toddler: vomiting nonsense all over the place without the adult responsibility of cleaning it up?

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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05-11-2015, 09:49 AM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2015 08:32 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 09:38 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:49 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  How can you draw a direct correlation between the universe being created and your personal favorite deity? Why not Shiva, Odin, Zues, or Mithras?

The most intellectually honest position, if you insist that a deity is the cause, is that it's impersonal and all of man's religions are off the mark, which leads you to a pretty useless god concept.
Still makes more sense than any other explanation in my opinion.
And you would be wrong, every single explanation that does NOT require shit that can't be shown to exist is a better explanation. Occom's Razor makes your explanation LITERALLY the worst one and the least likely.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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05-11-2015, 10:05 AM
People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 09:38 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:49 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  How can you draw a direct correlation between the universe being created and your personal favorite deity? Why not Shiva, Odin, Zues, or Mithras?

The most intellectually honest position, if you insist that a deity is the cause, is that it's impersonal and all of man's religions are off the mark, which leads you to a pretty useless god concept.
Still makes more sense than any other explanation in my opinion.

Yes, the idea of an impersonal force that created the universe makes more sense than a specific deity. Rolleyes

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-11-2015, 10:26 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 09:40 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:23 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Why would I have any reason to prove anything to anyone?

Because you are positing that god is a real explanation for a real phenomena in the real world and you are defending this as a reasonable and rational position to hold, superior to the alternitive, until someone proves you wrong.
You don't get to offer as an explanation something and then make the argument you don't have to justify or support that explanation. That's your bloody job as the person offering the explanation.

Your making claims and then running off to hide behind the, tediously common among thiests to the point of being a trope, position that you don't have to defend your assertions because your not trying to convince anyone. Thats not how it works. If you want to share your beliefs and then refuse to support, justify, or defend them in anyway what so ever the second they are challenged your free to do that but it adds nothing to the conversation and it shows how infantile and indefensible those beliefs actually are.

You're just a another theist with a god of the Gaps belief and a hand full of fallacies with no substance to your beliefs.

I do enjoy your sense of humor though, even if you do seem to like to dodge any kinda criticism leveled your way as fast as you possibly can.
I was asked what I believe. I answered it. Why would it matter to you why I believe anything? Do you have a better explanation to the origin of the universe other than everything came from nothing for absolutely no reason? I dont. So until a better one....Tongue
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