Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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05-11-2015, 10:10 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 03:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 06:47 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  The term "REAL" doesn't at all cover what distinction you think you mean by that. Just like Kirk Cameron saying he was a "devout" atheist. There is no defined argument. What do you think real is supposed to mean?

Your pattern is that you seem or truly just want to be insistent that there is "order" in the universe. That "Good" as you define it is something real and over negative bad things, and that drives the universe and thing such as evolution. Do you think if you could have evidence against that point you could change your perspective upon it?
Never said good is over bad or has much to do with the universe. It has to do with earth and man. I do know that the universe exhibits order though. Anyone with basic cognitive capacities can see that. But yeah, contrary to the general consensus of me here, I constantly take new information into consideration and would gladly look into any credible pertinent information.

That's completely disingenuous. You've often times talked about good existing over bad, and how God created others to stop the spread of bad/evil from the universe to continue your whole duality notion of good over evil.

Anyone with an inability to notice the evolutionary element of their human drive to WANT to see patterns can see order in the universe. The concept you think , well anyone can see that, is anything of a proof or worthy of a statement out of a person, is just showing how flawed your stance is. You want to look up information, and if you want to understand evolution far better. Look up the various layers of flaws in design and logical patterns of the human from the eye-blind-spot, to pattern recognition assumptions, to false memory, and a sleuth of any cognitive failures of the mind. There is so much showing how obvious these so called simple things are entirely just foolishly misattributed elements of an evolved being.

I would like to believe this, contrary to opinion here. Maybe it exists outside of here, but there is again NO reason at all for anyone to take your word for it, just like anything you proclaim. If you could demonstrate evidence of it, it'd be reasonable to proclaim. If you could show multiple posts of you legitimately taking in new evidence and changing your stance of it you would have demonstrated the start of a reasonable argument. Instead all you constantly do in posts is assert assert assert. With literally nothing to generally back it up but your claims of it ringing true to you.

Though, I do find it of course interesting you still act horribly dishonest and don't even answer simple questions. Like what at all did you think "real" in the concept of "real atheist" is supposed to infer or mean? Another question along that line is what do you envision an "evolutionist" is that thinks what you deem to be different elements about evolution.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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05-11-2015, 10:11 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
Jason - What I appreciate most, aside from your willingness to take your duty to serve as a Chaplain seriously enough to learn the beliefs of all for whom you will hold that responsibility, is that you are so understanding of our skepticism about your emotional trauma and its religious overtones. It is a sign that you may indeed have the emotional maturity to handle that job, and may do very well at it.

It is not personal, with us; we simply seek to find the most reasonable explanation for things. That often involves a very--let's call it "intense"--form of inquiry which may seem like we're trying to flay you open because you think differently than we do. That's not the case. One of our biggest complaints about religion is that it designates certain things "off limits" to such skeptical inquiry, tries to place religious ideas on a pedestal which cannot be reached by the inquiring/skeptical mind, and takes offense at our attempts to treat all ideas equally.

Granted, there are just as many atheists who are offensively bad at doing so as there are Christians who are offensively bad at sharing their faith; neither is a true reflection on the actual belief structure or ideology, per se.

Edit to Add: This is not, repeat NOT, directed at anyone in particular.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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05-11-2015, 10:17 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 06:49 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 06:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  Scripture is the claim, it is not the evidence.

You need to provide evidence of the veracity of those core scriptures.
I already have for myself. Still waiting.

Self delusion and the fever dreams you get when you go off your meds ain't evidence my lil' psychopathic serial rapist, and that's been explained to you a dozen or more times. Stop being a cunt just for the sake of being a cunt. It's just tedious at this point.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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05-11-2015, 10:22 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 09:55 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 09:43 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  What a load of utter lying bullshit. I person who valued evidence wouldn't constantly try to pretend he does not have to provide any to support his dumb ass assertions. A person who valued the scientific method wouldn't abandon it the second it doesn't get him the answers he decide he wanted. A person who valued rationality would not try to REPEATEDLY AND WITHOUT FUCKING END try to weasel his way out of his burden of proof when criticisms are brought against his irrational, and unproven, assertions.

You are a fucking liar you rapey lil' shit.


No the fact that you are a lying violent psychopathic rapist is enough reason to call you a liar you bloody liar.

Rapist, man?
Yes. Given that according to pops the burden of proof does not lay on the person making the claim but that it's up to other people to disprove the claim and until that happens the claim is true and reasonable....he's a rapist until he can prove he's not ....or until such a time as he acknowledges his goddamn original burden of proof and meets it lol.

The filthy lil' rapist!

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05-11-2015, 10:25 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 09:51 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Geezus, Whiskey! Go have a Glenlivet or something, change of pace. Relaaaaaaxxxxxxxxx.. Big Grin

Have you met this guy? Dodgy

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05-11-2015, 10:27 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 10:09 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 01:39 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Cthulhu is a close friend of mine. Did a tour together in Afghanistan and saved my skin a time or two. What does he have to do with this? Wink

A many others have already noted, it's a shame your humor seems to be nothing more than a defense mechanism. Undecided
It is....but he is actually funny which is a nice change of pace from our regular collection of theists which seem to be, with very few exceptions, a gaggle of cocks so I'm tempted to let it slide. Y'all know how often a let anything slide.Tongue

Honestly Jason don't let my more aggressive and blunt nature give the wrong impression I actually rather like you. You remind me of KC and that's a very very good thing. You are wrong, dodgy, and you might be a nutter, but you ain't malicious and you got a good sense of humor and you seem like a decent enough lad.Thumbsup

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05-11-2015, 10:37 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2015 11:26 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 10:25 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 09:51 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Geezus, Whiskey! Go have a Glenlivet or something, change of pace. Relaaaaaaxxxxxxxxx.. Big Grin

Have you met this guy? Dodgy
I felt I kept my tendency to swear to a reasonable minimum! Not one person got called a cock socket! Go back and read some of my month old exchanges with that lunatic Q or the rapist pops, I was very much pulling my punches lol I will admit the ol' fangs came out a tiny bit more then might have been needed but when I ask several legitimate and reasonable questions and get responses like "I don't gotta prove anything cause I don't feel like I should hav'ta", which are right out of the Christian Tropes Fall Catalog, I get a might bit snarly.

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05-11-2015, 10:41 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 10:10 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That's completely disingenuous. You've often times talked about good existing over bad, and how God created others to stop the spread of bad/evil from the universe to continue your whole duality notion of good over evil.

That's kinda what happens when your making your shit up as you go. I've watched his narrative change several times over when he says one thing and then changes it to something else. It took forever to nail the lil' cock socket down on if god created, spreads, and allows evil or if he's just the "good" stuff.

His narrative changes every time it's typed out which is hilarious because he talks to god and his god seems to have dementia or somethin'.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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05-11-2015, 11:02 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2015 11:20 PM by jason_delisle.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(05-11-2015 05:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 10:57 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Second, what benefits do I have from being a Christian? Google "four killed in car accident jacksonville nc ".... you will find a good reason why I prefer to be a theist.

Your god randomly kills people in fiery car crashes and that is why you prefer to be a theist? Shocking
That's the thing. I honestly lost my faith after my wife was killed. I blamed God for it. I used to pray to God and thanked him for the blessings he gave me. I thanked him for my wife. I said "God, I know what your plan is. You want me to be a loving father and husband."

But then after the accident I was angry with God. I thought "why would God give me these blessings just to rip them away? Is this some kind of sick joke?" I became bitter and angry. I hated the man who killed my wife. I discovered that this man was due in court the next day for a dui and evading police. On top of that his girlfriend who was pregnant with his baby girl had a miscarriage. While driving with 4 other passengers, one of which was his 16 year old little brother with down syndrome, decided that he was not going to jail and he was "going to see his baby girl and [he] was going to take everyone with him". He was also overdosed on antidepressants and illegal drugs.

He went into the other lane of traffic to go head on with a semi truck but the truck swerved out of the way. During this time two guys in the back seat jumped out. The man then floored it and plowed into my wife's suv going over a hundred miles an hour as she was crossing an intersection on the way to the grocery store. My 4 month old son was in the back seat at the time. So needless to say, I was angry and full of hate. I hated that man and I began to hate a God who would cause such a thing.

It wasn't long until the accident was all over the news. There was video footage of the wreckage and one of the videos captured my other son's favorite "horse blanket". This was a blanket that had little horses on it. My 2 year old son could not sleep without it. I made it a priority to go to that wreckage to get that blanket. What I saw shocked me. I found this twisted piece of metal that used to be a Toyota sequoia. But my 4 month old son only had a scratch on his cheek and some bruises on his legs from the car seat. Everyone gave credit to the car seat and asked me what brand it was. But the car seat had nothing to do with it. There was another car seat on the other side. The same exact brand and it was the car seat my 2 year old son would have sat in and it was completely crushed in. But the area around my son was completely untouched. The glass did not even crack which I found incredible because the vehicle flipped down a hill several times. I fell to my knees and wept because at that moment when I wondered "where was God?", I realized he was right there protecting my son.

My faith was restored but I had a lot of questions. I sought to find the answers in the bible. I learned that God wanted people to have the freedom to choose to love him or to rebel against him. If we did not have this freedom we would be nothing more that a wind up doll where you pull a string and the doll says "I love you". It's meaningless. This free will is so precious to God that he will ALLOW people to use their own free will to do evil than to take it away. God did not kill my wife, the man used his own free will.

With the teachings of the bible I had the wisdom to understand that it was pointless to hold on to the hate, judgment, and anger toward that man. Hate will not bring my wife back. It will not help me heal. It will not give me peace. I understood that that man is dead and is being judged by an all perfect being so it was useless to continue to judge him. Rather I began to pray that God would see that he was high on drugs and perhaps in a state of insanity because of how the antidepressants affected the chemical balance in his brain. I wanted to believe that it was the chemicals in his body that resulted in his decision and not his heart. I believed a perfectly just God would judge him for his heart .

I know this is a lot to swallow. I know I don't really know any of you so I don't really know why I feel the need to share all this personal information. But Chas, I hope this answers your question on why my faith in Christ was critical to getting me through the grief of my wife's murder. I know you and many others don't believe in God. That's fine. You will get no judgment from me. However I just hope that my testimony can be used as an example that religion can in fact have a very positive impact on people's lives. Without it I would be a much angrier and hateful person who still grieved for his wife.

I would also like to add a comment for whiskydebates. I hope my testimony proves your statement on how "my life would be more beneficial without the delusion of religion" is false. Forgive my frankness but who the heck are you to tell me what is benifitial to MY life. You don't know me. You don't know a single thing about me. So when it comes to my life and what is best please keep it to yourself. You think you are being smart because you feel like you have something to prove but instead you are looking like a real jackass.
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05-11-2015, 11:12 PM
RE: Silly shit.
(05-11-2015 09:09 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 10:26 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I was asked what I believe.
Not by me you bloody weren't. I asked you multiple questions to which you refused to answer, obfuscated, and out right attempted to dodge.

Quote:Why would it matter to you why I believe anything?
Because people who make decisions based on a faulty and delusional world view frequently make terrible or outright harmful decisions, both to themselves and others. Because those people have children and pass their superstitious nonsense on through indoctrination to those children instead of things that are ACTUALLY helpful such as reason and critical thinking. I care what, and more importantly why, you believe because I care about the welfare of people and I'd rather not see the species be bogged down by superstitious nonsense or worse be dragged backwards in to the kind of barbaric, primitive, savagery that was commonplace when people like you, the irrational and superstitious, were the ones with all the power.


Quote:Do you have a better explanation to the origin of the universe other than everything came from nothing for absolutely no reason? I dont. So until a better one....Tongue
1.) "I can't imagine a better answer.....so therefore god dun it!" is not just a logical fallacy it's one of the many peaks in the mountain range of personal ignorance. Your lack of an imagination is not an argument mate.
2.) There are also several uh... dozen competing hypothesis for the origin of the universe that are vastly more complex and well written than "everything from nothing for no reason herp a derp". Which by the way is not the stance of ANY physicist that I am aware of. Perhaps the reason you think "an invisible man who speaks to me in dreams" is the best answer because you are too busy dishonestly misrepresenting your opposition to actually learn what the opposition actually bloody is?
3.) If I am unable to provide a better explanation that does not mean that you are rationally justified in accepting whatever pet idea happens to tickle your balls the most. Your position is not justified or rational unless you can demonstrate it's accuracy.
4.) As I said before EVERY SINGLE theory that does NOT require, as it's ENTIRE explanation, a thing that can not be shown to exist is a better explanation then yours. Which is every single one of them give or take. Your explanation solves exactly zero questions about the how and then layers on top of the unanswered questions MORE questions. Your explanation has no explanatory powers and is as such worthless as an explanation. It's God of the gaps nonsense, designed not to answer questions but to stifle questions being asked.
To offer god as an explanation you have to prove that god exists FIRST. You have ZERO demonstrable evidence for this or for the notion that a god could be responsible.

However I have a question about your silly and ignorant misrepresentation of the non-theistic view of the origin of the universe: Why can something not come from nothing?
Why so judgmental? It really bothers you that I am not trying to convert you or push my religion on you...isn't it? Do you not understand that I have no interest in influencing anyone on this forum to change there opinion. It is usually only when someone asked me a direct question or tries to pull the information from me that I finally tell my beliefs. Do you not realize that my end state here on this forum is to become better equipped to protect the religious freedoms of all military service members...THAT INCLUDES ATHEIST FREEDOM TO NOT BELIEVE IN RELIGION!
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