Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-11-2015, 08:52 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
I think this is a wonderful discussion. I really appreciate everyone's input. The comments that I am getting is exactly what I need to hear from atheist to better understand how to serve them. Thank you,
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes jason_delisle's post
06-11-2015, 09:12 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 06:46 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 06:31 AM)Chas Wrote:  It is your faith that is going to be the problem.
How are you going to comfort the atheist? With your faith? I think not.
I will comfort the same way an atheist counselor would.

You don't know that. You have not yet trained and you admittedly don't understand atheists, so you have no basis for that statement.

This combination of ignorance and assumption makes you an unlikely counselor.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
06-11-2015, 09:13 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 08:27 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 10:17 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Self delusion and the fever dreams you get when you go off your meds ain't evidence my lil' psychopathic serial rapist, and that's been explained to you a dozen or more times. Stop being a cunt just for the sake of being a cunt. It's just tedious at this point.
Never been on meds really my poor lost drunkard. I'm sorry that some of you have some problem with there being one God that is referenced by many religious scripture to the point of staring that I can and will be proven wrong, but that has little to do with my claims, or what I know of peaceable scripture. If he didn't intend to back his claims then he shouldn't have made them. Tedious? This isn't tedious friend. I've dealt with tedious for decades. It has brought about a high level of patience. So... I still wait. I really don't like referring to you as a drunk, but you do so enjoy calling me a rapist don't you. Calm down, have a drink. It will help you cope.
Good luck proving me wrong, or do you have the balls to take on someone else's claim. He is your brother in disbelief is he not.
Best of luck really, I would be quite pleased to read any evidence one might attain in contrary to my knowledge.

Knowledge, I know, right.

Your knowledge of what pops? Disprove what? Imagination and fantasy? We can't. Here let's give it a try. Norgg the great and powerful creator of all life resides in hollow Uranus, disprove that....can't? That is because it is true. See the fallacy of that assertion?

What knowledge? Here is some knowledge for you....no one who ever wrote of jesus knew him. Argumentum ad populum for god being mentioned in many forms and in many cultures throughout history does not give the story of god credence. Get that?

Bigfoot/Sasquatch/Yeti/Yowie/Almas/skunk Ape/Grassman/Wendigo/Orange Pendeck/Mapingauri/Yeren has been written about, and witnessed for many years WORLDWIDE. Shit, it must exist then huh?

2,000 years from now whatever form of human exists then will inevitably find all of these mentions of bigfoot worldwide, and will certainly exclaim "Bigfoot" existed! He must have, look at the copious amount of worldwide documentation of him. Consider

http://hubpages.com/education/Names-for-...-the-World

Dodgy

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
06-11-2015, 09:16 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 07:20 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  If I am called to comfort a grieving widow who is an atheist, does the fact that I used the bible to cope change the fact that I grieved? Does it change the fact that I was in pain? Does the bible change the fact that I lost a wife? The fact is that I would probably be one of the very few people in the chaplain field who honestly can look the grieving widow in the face and truly say "I understand what you are going through. I understand how you feel."

No, actually, you don't really understand what she is going through or how she feels.

Your approach to your grief is not like hers. Your path to comfort is not like hers.

You won't be very helpful.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
06-11-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 09:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 06:46 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I will comfort the same way an atheist counselor would.

You don't know that. You have not yet trained and you admittedly don't understand atheists, so you have no basis for that statement.

This combination of ignorance and assumption makes you an unlikely counselor.
Exactly why I am on an atheist forum.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-11-2015, 09:34 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
Were I troubled, the last place I would seek advice would be from a minister, priest, rabbi, imam, or chaplain.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Thinkerbelle's post
06-11-2015, 09:38 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 01:26 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 11:02 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I fell to my knees and wept because at that moment when I wondered "where was God?", I realized he was right there protecting my son.

This free will is so precious to God that he will ALLOW people to use their own free will to do evil than to take it away. God did not kill my wife, the man used his own free will.

What of your wife's free will? Why did the killer's free will trump hers? God had the power to act and did so in the case of your son but not your wife? I'm sorry man. Sorry that shit happened to you, but... your God if he exists (which is so improbable as to be ludicrous) is evil.

Not only your wife, but millions of other people die of preventable causes every year, yet God fails to act. People live their lives in misery, afflicted by disease, yet God does nothing. God will cure some people apparently, but modern medicine has a far higher success rate.

If God exists, if God is good, if God is all-powerful, if God loves us, then God should be able to prevent war, disease and even the accident that killed your wife. He could have picked that car up and thrown it into space if he wanted to, but he rather allowed the man to kill her. It wasn't even the man's *intent* to kill her, so that already blows your tenuous free-will argument out the water. He wanted to hit the truck but missed.

The problem of evil isn't quite as simple as this, though. An interesting thought experiment about a world where "God" does intervene to prevent every possible misfortune is worked out in Orson Scott Card's The Worthing Saga:

http://www.amazon.com/Worthing-Saga-Orso...0812533313

I don't believe in God, but the problem of evil is not the reason why. It is a bit more complex than the usual representations would lead you to believe.

For what it's worth, Card is a practicing Mormon, but for me, that doesn't detract from his writing. He's one of my favorite sci-fi/fantasy writers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Grasshopper's post
06-11-2015, 09:47 AM
Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 08:49 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 08:04 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Anyone can say that. Anyone can offer to just listen, and sometimes that's all that's needed. I'm more worried about if someone actually takes you up on the talking bit. I'm not convinced that you could carry on such a dialogue in a way that would comfort a non-believer.


I hope I'm wrong, but I haven't seen anything outside of generic empty platitudes, and your own humorous deflection. Undecided
Are you suggesting that I am unable to provide comfort and support without bringing up the bible? You are right that anyone can say "I am here for you." However a chaplain has certain privileges that nobody else in the military has. That is absolute discretion. A chaplain is absolutely forbidden to disclose any information to anyone about what is said in confidence. Therapist and counselors don't even have that protection. Even if a Marine came to a chaplain and said that he was going to kill his commanding officer and laid out in detail his plans. All a chaplain can do it tell the CO that it is very unwise for him to come in to work that day.
A counselor or therapist will be forced under law to report such an individual. Many atheist turn to chaplains because of that protection.


Many more so avoid chaplains entirely because the last thing they want to hear is how they need Jesus in their lives, and how everything would be better for them if they but believed and had faith in the Lord. I mean, this is the US military, which does have a strong pro-religion bent that varies from place to place and service to service. But when we hear of the Air Force firing a Hindu woman because the Evangelicals that ran her unit were afraid that her meditation was summoning demons, ordered her to pray against gay marriage as a condition of her employment, called her a Hindu witch, then fired her hours after she lodged a formal complaint with her superiors? This is the context that many non-believers can find themselves, in a military sworn to uphold and defend the very Constitutionally protected secularism that it so very easily tramples under foot.


In fact the very same special deference, confidentiality, privileges, and protections granted to Chaplains that are not extended to other purely secular options (seeing a therapist goes on your record, seeing a Chaplin does not) is but another example of this prejudice and institutionalized bias.


So that being said, I sincerely hope that you have more to offer an atheist, agnostic, or non-believer other than merely bringing those same "privileges". Can you offer comfort and guidance to someone who doesn't rely on magical thinking? I hope so, but I have my doubts; especially given the dodge of a non-answer your reply was.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like EvolutionKills's post
06-11-2015, 09:51 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 09:13 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 08:27 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Never been on meds really my poor lost drunkard. I'm sorry that some of you have some problem with there being one God that is referenced by many religious scripture to the point of staring that I can and will be proven wrong, but that has little to do with my claims, or what I know of peaceable scripture. If he didn't intend to back his claims then he shouldn't have made them. Tedious? This isn't tedious friend. I've dealt with tedious for decades. It has brought about a high level of patience. So... I still wait. I really don't like referring to you as a drunk, but you do so enjoy calling me a rapist don't you. Calm down, have a drink. It will help you cope.
Good luck proving me wrong, or do you have the balls to take on someone else's claim. He is your brother in disbelief is he not.
Best of luck really, I would be quite pleased to read any evidence one might attain in contrary to my knowledge.

Knowledge, I know, right.

Your knowledge of what pops? Disprove what? Imagination and fantasy? We can't. Here let's give it a try. Norgg the great and powerful creator of all life resides in hollow Uranus, disprove that....can't? That is because it is true. See the fallacy of that assertion?

What knowledge? Here is some knowledge for you....no one who ever wrote of jesus knew him. Argumentum ad populum for god being mentioned in many forms and in many cultures throughout history does not give the story of god credence. Get that?

Bigfoot/Sasquatch/Yeti/Yowie/Almas/skunk Ape/Grassman/Wendigo/Orange Pendeck/Mapingauri/Yeren has been written about, and witnessed for many years WORLDWIDE. Shit, it must exist then huh?

2,000 years from now whatever form of human exists then will inevitably find all of these mentions of bigfoot worldwide, and will certainly exclaim "Bigfoot" existed! He must have, look at the copious amount of worldwide documentation of him. Consider

http://hubpages.com/education/Names-for-...-the-World

Dodgy
I like that. Still irrelevant though. My knowledge of what you ask. God and my direction under it. God and the possibility of unseen advancement, peace and prosperity of all existence under the direction there of. What are you saying about Jesus. Crist is a way of being. Jesus was the most pure in this and his teachings and sacrifice are a lesson to those with ears and eyes. Notably, quite a few.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes popsthebuilder's post
06-11-2015, 09:58 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 08:27 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Never been on meds...

That may be the problem. You should consult with somebody qualified to determine if you should be.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like unfogged's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: