Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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06-11-2015, 01:27 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 01:14 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 12:37 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  And it would be a theist military chaplain who would ensure you get an atheist therapist. Because you have the right to one. Wink
Why a theist chaplain? What value does their crazy belief in magical entities have for me? It's a detractor. We might as well replace them with Wiccan chaplains, but of course I doubt you would like that. or maybe Jedi chaplains, but they are crazy right?

What value is a theist chaplain for me? Would I be better served by a scientist of some sort i.e. a psychaitrist or a psychologist rather than a believer in mystical and magical things.


A theist chaplain is only of value to others that have special needs (spiritual needs).
Here is a link that may educate you about military chaplains.

http://www.militaryonesource.mil/phases-..._id=269246
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06-11-2015, 02:14 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 01:27 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 01:14 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Why a theist chaplain? What value does their crazy belief in magical entities have for me? It's a detractor. We might as well replace them with Wiccan chaplains, but of course I doubt you would like that. or maybe Jedi chaplains, but they are crazy right?

What value is a theist chaplain for me? Would I be better served by a scientist of some sort i.e. a psychaitrist or a psychologist rather than a believer in mystical and magical things.


A theist chaplain is only of value to others that have special needs (spiritual needs).
Here is a link that may educate you about military chaplains.

http://www.militaryonesource.mil/phases-..._id=269246

From your link:

"As religious leaders of the military,...

...providing confidential counseling and advising commanders on religious, spiritual and moral matters...

While chaplains are not generally licensed counselors,...

...chaplain teams offer comfort, religious support and pastoral care...

Advising commanders on religious and moral matters - Chaplain Corps members serve as advisors to commanders on matters of religion, morality and integrity, which may include the following:
Meeting the religious needs of assigned personnel
Assessing the spiritual and moral climate of the command
Planning and programming related to the moral quality of leadership, the care of people, religious education and related funding issues associated with religious programming within the commander's area of responsibility
Overseeing the planning and maintenance of religious facilities
Publicizing religious program activities
Developing religious education programs and religious youth activities"

Etc.

Religion colors every aspect of the chaplain's duties. I must have missed any reference to atheists. I didn't even see any nod to the standard "including non-religious service members" or anything like that.

Kudos to you for trying to include atheists. I just don't think you can totally discard the religious goggles through which you view the world.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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06-11-2015, 02:17 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 01:27 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 01:14 PM)Stevil Wrote:  A theist chaplain is only of value to others that have special needs (spiritual needs).
Here is a link that may educate you about military chaplains.

http://www.militaryonesource.mil/phases-..._id=269246
Yes, just confirms what I've been saying


Conducting worship and administering sacraments

pointless non-sense. (special needs of theists only)

Performing other religious ceremonies and services
pointless non-sense. (special needs of theists only)

Counseling for service members and their families
The key here is the following "While chaplains are not generally licensed counselors, they are prepared to help people with various life challenges"

Sure they have a desire to help people with various life challenges but they are not professionally prepared or skilled to do this. Trained professionals would be better equipped. I do not want a lunatic that believes in magic and invisible beings to help me with my real life challenges.

Conducting visitation with service members
OK, perhaps this in interesting, what is it about? What does a religious chaplin have to offer in lieu of a trained professional?
"Wherever they connect with military members, chaplain teams offer comfort, religious support and pastoral care."
Oh, they waste effort on "pastoral care" whatever that is. Seems non relevant.

Advising commanders on religious and moral matters
Religious matters are just imaginary not something real. Fantasies!
Religious folk aren't qualified to deal with moral matters. Religious morality is horrific and cannot accept that moral are merely opinions.

Chaplain Corps members serve as advisors to commanders on matters of religion, morality and integrity
Unnecessary distractions that add no value.

Developing religious education programs and religious youth activities
Spread the disease of religion. No thanks.

Conducting seminars and retreats
OK, but why a religious chaplain rather than someone else?

"Chaplains conduct seminars and retreats for the religious, moral and social development"
OK, seems that using a religious chaplain ruins this opportunity to provide something of value.

Providing combat stress intervention
An appropriately trained professional would be better equipped for this task.
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06-11-2015, 02:25 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 02:17 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 01:27 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Here is a link that may educate you about military chaplains.

http://www.militaryonesource.mil/phases-..._id=269246
Yes, just confirms what I've been saying


Conducting worship and administering sacraments

pointless non-sense. (special needs of theists only)

Performing other religious ceremonies and services
pointless non-sense. (special needs of theists only)

Counseling for service members and their families
The key here is the following "While chaplains are not generally licensed counselors, they are prepared to help people with various life challenges"

Sure they have a desire to help people with various life challenges but they are not professionally prepared or skilled to do this. Trained professionals would be better equipped. I do not want a lunatic that believes in magic and invisible beings to help me with my real life challenges.

Conducting visitation with service members
OK, perhaps this in interesting, what is it about? What does a religious chaplin have to offer in lieu of a trained professional?
"Wherever they connect with military members, chaplain teams offer comfort, religious support and pastoral care."
Oh, they waste effort on "pastoral care" whatever that is. Seems non relevant.

Advising commanders on religious and moral matters
Religious matters are just imaginary not something real. Fantasies!
Religious folk aren't qualified to deal with moral matters. Religious morality is horrific and cannot accept that moral are merely opinions.

Chaplain Corps members serve as advisors to commanders on matters of religion, morality and integrity
Unnecessary distractions that add no value.

Developing religious education programs and religious youth activities
Spread the disease of religion. No thanks.

Conducting seminars and retreats
OK, but why a religious chaplain rather than someone else?

"Chaplains conduct seminars and retreats for the religious, moral and social development"
OK, seems that using a religious chaplain ruins this opportunity to provide something of value.

Providing combat stress intervention
An appropriately trained professional would be better equipped for this task.
I am glad we all are more informed about the roles and responsibilities of a chaplain. We are all better off because of it. Hehe Wink
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06-11-2015, 02:28 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
Unfortunately I a remote FOB in Afghanistan, a chaplain is the most qualified person you got.
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06-11-2015, 02:31 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 02:25 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I am glad we all are more informed about the roles and responsibilities of a chaplain. We are all better off because of it. Hehe Wink
I'm not trying to put you or your vocation down.
I'm just highlighting that the value your vocation offers isn't of value to atheists. Only of value to theists with their special spiritual needs. Us atheists don't have those needs.

If you think you are doubling up as a councilor, then realise there are professionals better qualified in that area. Professionals who have focused on counseling where as you have invested much time on theology. You can't know everything. If you are spending time on theology then you are not spending that time learning about counseling and psychology.
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06-11-2015, 02:33 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 02:28 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Unfortunately I a remote FOB in Afghanistan, a chaplain is the most qualified person you got.
If the govt and military were less religious they would send professionals rather than chaplains.
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06-11-2015, 03:04 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 02:31 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 02:25 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I am glad we all are more informed about the roles and responsibilities of a chaplain. We are all better off because of it. Hehe Wink
I'm not trying to put you or your vocation down.
I'm just highlighting that the value your vocation offers isn't of value to atheists. Only of value to theists with their special spiritual needs. Us atheists don't have those needs.

If you think you are doubling up as a councilor, then realise there are professionals better qualified in that area. Professionals who have focused on counseling where as you have invested much time on theology. You can't know everything. If you are spending time on theology then you are not spending that time learning about counseling and psychology.
Ok. I guess you are right. I guess I should tell the atheist Marine of mine who is in the ICU that his request for a chaplain is denied because they are of no use to him. Blush
Thank you all so much for opening up my eyes to my errors. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Despite the fact that I am his officer in charge it is probably best if I didn't visit him either because obviously since I am a Christian I cannot be trusted to give him and his family comfort and support. Thank you.Blush
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06-11-2015, 03:05 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 02:33 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 02:28 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Unfortunately I a remote FOB in Afghanistan, a chaplain is the most qualified person you got.
If the govt and military were less religious they would send professionals rather than chaplains.
The military won't send civilian counselors in a combat zone. What's plan b?
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06-11-2015, 03:20 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:04 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 02:31 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I'm not trying to put you or your vocation down.
I'm just highlighting that the value your vocation offers isn't of value to atheists. Only of value to theists with their special spiritual needs. Us atheists don't have those needs.

If you think you are doubling up as a councilor, then realise there are professionals better qualified in that area. Professionals who have focused on counseling where as you have invested much time on theology. You can't know everything. If you are spending time on theology then you are not spending that time learning about counseling and psychology.
Ok. I guess you are right. I guess I should tell the atheist Marine of mine who is in the ICU that his request for a chaplain is denied because they are of no use to him. Blush
Thank you all so much for opening up my eyes to my errors. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Despite the fact that I am his officer in charge it is probably best if I didn't visit him either because obviously since I am a Christian I cannot be trusted to give him and his family comfort and support. Thank you.Blush

Visiting him as his CO is just basic human compassion. You seem to be the compassionate sort so I would expect nothing less from you.

Visiting him as a religious entity in the line of duty brings baggage.

Do chaplains' uniforms include any religious symbols?

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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