Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-11-2015, 03:23 PM (This post was last modified: 06-11-2015 03:38 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 12:32 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Is there anyone here who can claim they have a better understanding about military chaplains than I do. Are there any atheist here who were former military chaplains? So why are there so many experts here about chaplains and how atheist service members have benefitted from them? I would assume that as an active duty Marine officer who is training to become a chaplain that this may be the one topic that I should be a credible source.

29 year active duty atheist Navy Officer *points to avatar* that is me. Chaplains provide several important counseling, religious services etc....they also plaster religious propaganda all over the message boards, on the hallways etc..."advertising" their services to service members. I dont have a problem with that, I have a problem that it is plastered on every wall in the command....feels....oppressive. I dislike that everytime I have had to interact with one of these overpaid social workers who play officer that they always ask, are you a member of faith? If the answer is no, "well perhaps if you give god a chance, he can help you with this problem".....or..."Perhaps giving faith a chance can provide you with an appropriate coping mechanism for blah blah blah".

These tools actually get assigned to give the Wardroom training on ethics, morals, and conduct...like they have a fucking clue about ethics, morals or conduct...read the bible? Providing people who are infected with faith a sympathetic ear they can relate to is important. The same counseling service can be done with a secular chaplain, I think we are getting those now...good. I hate that we are supposed to separate faith from government, yet every Navy ship has the chaplain come on the 1MC (Intercom)5 mins before "taps" (10pm) and say a prayer...so i have to lay in my bed and listen to chaplain timmy drone on about god, and corinthians 2....guess what? not everyone is christian on board, and shouldnt be subjected to this under the guise of "tradition".

I hate that every official wardroom function dear old overpaid chaps has to start and finish the meeting/dinner/conference with a fucking prayer....dont like it? tough shit...its "tradition".

Don't think because you decided you want to exploit the chaplain game to proselytize to junior folks who wont tell you they would rather not hear it because you are wearing bars on your collar makes you somehow an expert on chaplains, or their interactions with others who come from a wide diverse background of beliefs. No, I have NEVER been exposed to a chaplain who didnt bring god into the conversation within the first 3 sentences.

As soon as they find out you are an atheist, and politely inform them of such, their smile fades and the rudeness begins. The senior Chaplain sent out a mandatory ethics training for all officers, and it referenced MULTIPLE biblical scriptures as a lesson to learn from. I openly and vehemently destroyed him, his references and his audacity to assume his audience (all officers) would be welcoming of his reference to fairy tales as an example of ethics. Last time that happened.

So no Jason, you are not the expert.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 10 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
06-11-2015, 03:23 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:20 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 03:04 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Ok. I guess you are right. I guess I should tell the atheist Marine of mine who is in the ICU that his request for a chaplain is denied because they are of no use to him. Blush
Thank you all so much for opening up my eyes to my errors. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Despite the fact that I am his officer in charge it is probably best if I didn't visit him either because obviously since I am a Christian I cannot be trusted to give him and his family comfort and support. Thank you.Blush

Visiting him as his CO is just basic human compassion. You seem to be the compassionate sort so I would expect nothing less from you.

Visiting him as a religious entity in the line of duty brings baggage.

Do chaplains' uniforms include any religious symbols?

All chaplains' I have dealt with had some sort of religious symbols on their uniforms.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like ohio_drg's post
06-11-2015, 03:29 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
Any chaplain I ever met was a douchebag.......

Without fail, each and every one of them thought they had the lock on some "truth"........

I avoided them whenever possible.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like onlinebiker's post
06-11-2015, 03:32 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:20 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 03:04 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Ok. I guess you are right. I guess I should tell the atheist Marine of mine who is in the ICU that his request for a chaplain is denied because they are of no use to him. Blush
Thank you all so much for opening up my eyes to my errors. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Despite the fact that I am his officer in charge it is probably best if I didn't visit him either because obviously since I am a Christian I cannot be trusted to give him and his family comfort and support. Thank you.Blush

Visiting him as his CO is just basic human compassion. You seem to be the compassionate sort so I would expect nothing less from you.

Visiting him as a religious entity in the line of duty brings baggage.

Do chaplains' uniforms include any religious symbols?
Yes. On their collar there is a symbol to indicate their faith. But you are still suggesting i should deny the chaplain request?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-11-2015, 03:40 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:29 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Any chaplain I ever met was a douchebag.......

Without fail, each and every one of them thought they had the lock on some "truth"........

I avoided them whenever possible.

Funniest one we had was last deployment, he would start his evening prayer, and then about 5 words in he would switch into a dramatic irish accent....he claims he "channels" some irish saint or something or other.....delusion at its finest.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes goodwithoutgod's post
06-11-2015, 03:41 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:23 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 12:32 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Is there anyone here who can claim they have a better understanding about military chaplains than I do. Are there any atheist here who were former military chaplains? So why are there so many experts here about chaplains and how atheist service members have benefitted from them? I would assume that as an active duty Marine officer who is training to become a chaplain that this may be the one topic that I should be a credible source.

29 year active duty atheist Navy Officer *points to avatar* that is me. Chaplains provide several important counseling, religious services etc....they also plaster religious propaganda all over the message boards, on the hallways etc..."advertising" their services to service members. I dont have a problem with that, I have a problem that it is plastered on every wall in the command....feels....oppressive. I dislike that everytime I have had to interact with one of these overpaid social workers who play officer that they always ask, are you a member of faith? If the answer is no, "well perhaps if you give god a chance, he can help you with this problem".....or..."Perhaps giving faith a chance can provide you with an appropriate coping mechanism for blah blah blah".

These tools actually get assigned to give the Wardroom training on ethics, morals, and conduct...like they have a fucking clue about ethics, morals or conduct...read the bible? Providing people who are infected with faith a sympathetic ear they can relate to is important. The same counseling service can be done with a secular chaplain, I think we are getting those now...good. I hate that we are supposed to separate faith from government, yet every Navy ship has the chaplain come on the 1MC (Intercom)5 mins before "taps" (10pm) and say a prayer...so i have to lay in my bed and listen to chaplain timmy drone on about god, and corinthians 2....guess what? not everyone is christian on board, and shouldnt be subjected to this under the guise of "tradition".

I hate that every official wardroom function dear old overpaid chaps has to start and finish the meeting/dinner/conference with a fucking prayer....dont like it? tough shit...its "tradition".

Don't think because you decided you want to exploit the chaplain game to proselytize to junior folks who wont tell you they would rather not hear it because you are wearing bars on your collar makes you somehow an expert on chaplains, or their interactions with others who come from a wide diverse background of beliefs. No, I have NEVER been exposed to a chaplain who didnt bring god into the conversation within the first 3 sentences.

As soon as they find out you are an atheist, and politely inform them of such, their smile fades and the rudeness begins. The senior Chaplain sent out an ethics training for all officers, and it referenced MULTIPLE biblical scriptures as a lesson to learn form. I openly and vehemently destroyed him, his references and his audacity to assume his audience (all officers) would be welcoming of his reference to fairy tales as an example of ethics. Last time that happened.

So no Jason, you are not the expert.
I never said I was an expert. I just wanted to hear from people like yourself. I want to hear everything that you said. You are right about everything and I hope that I can learn from this. I have learned on this forum that atheist are in fact persecuted I am sorry that there are chaplains who judge you and get upset with you because you are an atheist. Call me naive but I really hope to change that. Thank you for your insight and thank you for your service.

Btw...after reading my post I can see why I came across as claiming to be an expert. My apologies.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like jason_delisle's post
06-11-2015, 03:44 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:04 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 02:31 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I'm not trying to put you or your vocation down.
I'm just highlighting that the value your vocation offers isn't of value to atheists. Only of value to theists with their special spiritual needs. Us atheists don't have those needs.

If you think you are doubling up as a councilor, then realise there are professionals better qualified in that area. Professionals who have focused on counseling where as you have invested much time on theology. You can't know everything. If you are spending time on theology then you are not spending that time learning about counseling and psychology.
Ok. I guess you are right. I guess I should tell the atheist Marine of mine who is in the ICU that his request for a chaplain is denied because they are of no use to him. Blush
Thank you all so much for opening up my eyes to my errors. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Despite the fact that I am his officer in charge it is probably best if I didn't visit him either because obviously since I am a Christian I cannot be trusted to give him and his family comfort and support. Thank you.Blush

Visiting one of your personnel and expressing concern, offering comfort, and words of encouragement falls under LEADERSHIP core values....religion not needed. If one of my sailors requests a chaplain, I get him the chaplain, my personal views are not relevant, and it is my job to take care of my sailor...leadership. When I am reenlisting someone, I ask, do you want it to end (reenlistment oath) with so help me god, or so help me. Whatever they choose is good for me, it is his/her oath, not mine, and as the reenlisting officer it is my job to recite the oath to them, and if they want so help me god, that is what I say, that is secular leadership. Separation of religion and government.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
06-11-2015, 03:44 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:40 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 03:29 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Any chaplain I ever met was a douchebag.......

Without fail, each and every one of them thought they had the lock on some "truth"........

I avoided them whenever possible.

Funniest one we had was last deployment, he would start his evening prayer, and then about 5 words in he would switch into a dramatic irish accent....he claims he "channels" some irish saint or something or other.....delusion at its finest.
Yeah that is really funny. Was he Catholic?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-11-2015, 03:46 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:41 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 03:23 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  29 year active duty atheist Navy Officer *points to avatar* that is me. Chaplains provide several important counseling, religious services etc....they also plaster religious propaganda all over the message boards, on the hallways etc..."advertising" their services to service members. I dont have a problem with that, I have a problem that it is plastered on every wall in the command....feels....oppressive. I dislike that everytime I have had to interact with one of these overpaid social workers who play officer that they always ask, are you a member of faith? If the answer is no, "well perhaps if you give god a chance, he can help you with this problem".....or..."Perhaps giving faith a chance can provide you with an appropriate coping mechanism for blah blah blah".

These tools actually get assigned to give the Wardroom training on ethics, morals, and conduct...like they have a fucking clue about ethics, morals or conduct...read the bible? Providing people who are infected with faith a sympathetic ear they can relate to is important. The same counseling service can be done with a secular chaplain, I think we are getting those now...good. I hate that we are supposed to separate faith from government, yet every Navy ship has the chaplain come on the 1MC (Intercom)5 mins before "taps" (10pm) and say a prayer...so i have to lay in my bed and listen to chaplain timmy drone on about god, and corinthians 2....guess what? not everyone is christian on board, and shouldnt be subjected to this under the guise of "tradition".

I hate that every official wardroom function dear old overpaid chaps has to start and finish the meeting/dinner/conference with a fucking prayer....dont like it? tough shit...its "tradition".

Don't think because you decided you want to exploit the chaplain game to proselytize to junior folks who wont tell you they would rather not hear it because you are wearing bars on your collar makes you somehow an expert on chaplains, or their interactions with others who come from a wide diverse background of beliefs. No, I have NEVER been exposed to a chaplain who didnt bring god into the conversation within the first 3 sentences.

As soon as they find out you are an atheist, and politely inform them of such, their smile fades and the rudeness begins. The senior Chaplain sent out an ethics training for all officers, and it referenced MULTIPLE biblical scriptures as a lesson to learn form. I openly and vehemently destroyed him, his references and his audacity to assume his audience (all officers) would be welcoming of his reference to fairy tales as an example of ethics. Last time that happened.

So no Jason, you are not the expert.
I never said I was an expert. I just wanted to hear from people like yourself. I want to hear everything that you said. You are right about everything and I hope that I can learn from this. I have learned on this forum that atheist are in fact persecuted I am sorry that there are chaplains who judge you and get upset with you because you are an atheist. Call me naive but I really hope to change that. Thank you for your insight and thank you for your service.

Btw...after reading my post I can see why I came across as claiming to be an expert. My apologies.

Thumbsup

No worries, this has been an irritant for me since I joined....hiding behind tradition is BS. I hate we all stand and bow our heads, regardless of your beliefs or non beliefs, and listen to chaplain whoever recite scripture. This isn't church, and has no place in official programs outside of church.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes goodwithoutgod's post
06-11-2015, 03:48 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:44 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 03:40 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Funniest one we had was last deployment, he would start his evening prayer, and then about 5 words in he would switch into a dramatic irish accent....he claims he "channels" some irish saint or something or other.....delusion at its finest.
Yeah that is really funny. Was he Catholic?

Yes he was actually.....we would all just giggle when he came on the intercom...not kidding, literally 5 words in he would switch into this ridiculous irish accent....no he wasn't irish Big Grin

Just undermined his credibility..."channeling" Rolleyes

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes goodwithoutgod's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: