Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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06-11-2015, 03:49 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 02:31 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 02:25 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I am glad we all are more informed about the roles and responsibilities of a chaplain. We are all better off because of it. Hehe Wink
I'm not trying to put you or your vocation down.
I'm just highlighting that the value your vocation offers isn't of value to atheists. Only of value to theists with their special spiritual needs. Us atheists don't have those needs.

If you think you are doubling up as a councilor, then realise there are professionals better qualified in that area. Professionals who have focused on counseling where as you have invested much time on theology. You can't know everything. If you are spending time on theology then you are not spending that time learning about counseling and psychology.
Psychology is an fd up science based on opinion rather than fact.

Look at the definition of psychopathy for an example.
The entire definition revolves around the criminal aspects of incredibly selfish, greedy people. In reality someone can lack fear and empathy on a personal level without being egotistical or a criminal.

A chaplain would have experience in counseling simply from talking to people about their problems. You act like atheists and theist have different problems, but in a war or military setting most problems where one might need counsel would be of similar product regardless of faith or the lack there of. PTSD, lack of steady interaction with loved ones, qualms with taking orders, qualms with killing others, problems with the reason they have been deployed in a foreign land to do the bidding of others who are safely tucked away in the homeland, so forth and so on. Counseling can be done successfully by any with a listening discerning ear and a compassionate heart. They don't need to be atheist or theist to help others in need.

That's just more division which helps nothing in my opinion.

See, I said opinion!
He can be taught!
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06-11-2015, 03:52 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:04 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 02:31 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I'm not trying to put you or your vocation down.
I'm just highlighting that the value your vocation offers isn't of value to atheists. Only of value to theists with their special spiritual needs. Us atheists don't have those needs.

If you think you are doubling up as a councilor, then realise there are professionals better qualified in that area. Professionals who have focused on counseling where as you have invested much time on theology. You can't know everything. If you are spending time on theology then you are not spending that time learning about counseling and psychology.
Ok. I guess you are right. I guess I should tell the atheist Marine of mine who is in the ICU that his request for a chaplain is denied because they are of no use to him. Blush
Thank you all so much for opening up my eyes to my errors. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Despite the fact that I am his officer in charge it is probably best if I didn't visit him either because obviously since I am a Christian I cannot be trusted to give him and his family comfort and support. Thank you.Blush
That was one of the best displays of passive aggressiveness and sarcasm that I have ever seen. Congratulations.

And good luck in all your peaceable endeavours.
Marines kick ass. May God be with you and the men of your command.
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06-11-2015, 03:57 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:23 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 12:32 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Is there anyone here who can claim they have a better understanding about military chaplains than I do. Are there any atheist here who were former military chaplains? So why are there so many experts here about chaplains and how atheist service members have benefitted from them? I would assume that as an active duty Marine officer who is training to become a chaplain that this may be the one topic that I should be a credible source.

29 year active duty atheist Navy Officer *points to avatar* that is me. Chaplains provide several important counseling, religious services etc....they also plaster religious propaganda all over the message boards, on the hallways etc..."advertising" their services to service members. I dont have a problem with that, I have a problem that it is plastered on every wall in the command....feels....oppressive. I dislike that everytime I have had to interact with one of these overpaid social workers who play officer that they always ask, are you a member of faith? If the answer is no, "well perhaps if you give god a chance, he can help you with this problem".....or..."Perhaps giving faith a chance can provide you with an appropriate coping mechanism for blah blah blah".

These tools actually get assigned to give the Wardroom training on ethics, morals, and conduct...like they have a fucking clue about ethics, morals or conduct...read the bible? Providing people who are infected with faith a sympathetic ear they can relate to is important. The same counseling service can be done with a secular chaplain, I think we are getting those now...good. I hate that we are supposed to separate faith from government, yet every Navy ship has the chaplain come on the 1MC (Intercom)5 mins before "taps" (10pm) and say a prayer...so i have to lay in my bed and listen to chaplain timmy drone on about god, and corinthians 2....guess what? not everyone is christian on board, and shouldnt be subjected to this under the guise of "tradition".

I hate that every official wardroom function dear old overpaid chaps has to start and finish the meeting/dinner/conference with a fucking prayer....dont like it? tough shit...its "tradition".

Don't think because you decided you want to exploit the chaplain game to proselytize to junior folks who wont tell you they would rather not hear it because you are wearing bars on your collar makes you somehow an expert on chaplains, or their interactions with others who come from a wide diverse background of beliefs. No, I have NEVER been exposed to a chaplain who didnt bring god into the conversation within the first 3 sentences.

As soon as they find out you are an atheist, and politely inform them of such, their smile fades and the rudeness begins. The senior Chaplain sent out a mandatory ethics training for all officers, and it referenced MULTIPLE biblical scriptures as a lesson to learn from. I openly and vehemently destroyed him, his references and his audacity to assume his audience (all officers) would be welcoming of his reference to fairy tales as an example of ethics. Last time that happened.

So no Jason, you are not the expert.
One nation under God. Do you remember that. Pretty sure you took an oath under a similar statement. So yeah you may be subjected to religious views seeing as how you took an oath under such.
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06-11-2015, 04:00 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:48 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Yes he was actually.....we would all just giggle when he came on the intercom...not kidding, literally 5 words in he would switch into this ridiculous irish accent....no he wasn't irish Big Grin

Just undermined his credibility..."channeling" Rolleyes

I dunno... might've been funny to listen for a few minutes every night about "Tha Lard".

Bad Irish accents are bad.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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06-11-2015, 04:04 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:57 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  One nation under God. Do you remember that. Pretty sure you took an oath under a similar statement. So yeah you may be subjected to religious views seeing as how you took an oath under such.

Instead of just screaming at you, and wearing out my sensitive little fingertips on this keyboard, I'm just going to politely ask you to Google how "under God" came to be added to the Pledge. Seriously, please do it.

And no, our oath was not under that statement. It may end with "...so help me God", or you may omit the deity. Even back in 1994 when I took it, we were permitted to omit the entire "so help me God" as part of our oath-- and I did. Not yet eighteen years old, but I already knew it would invalidate my oath to pretend to swear to a being I no longer felt was listening to humans, and I took the oath too seriously to do that. It was one of the first non-theistic acts in my young life.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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06-11-2015, 04:11 PM (This post was last modified: 06-11-2015 04:16 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:57 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  One nation under God. Do you remember that. Pretty sure you took an oath under a similar statement. So yeah you may be subjected to religious views seeing as how you took an oath under such.

I most certainly did not. I took the federal civilian oath of office twice and the military oath of enlistment once. Both end with "So help me, God." I objected. Not a big deal. Scratch it out and have me and the administer of the oath initialize and date it. Not a big deal.

United States Constitution, Article VI, paragraph 3:
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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06-11-2015, 04:11 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 10:58 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 10:26 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Well, that is all we get from you. You are so deeply mired in your woo that you have no idea how ridiculous you sound.


You do not anger me. At best I find you amusing in a tedious sort of way. Your fantasies are no threat to me or to what I believe because as far as I can tell they are the nonsensical ravings of a severely deluded individual. You can have all the faith you want in whatever you like. I will stick with reality.
I understand completely how nuts and lost Kay sound to some. It is irrelevant. If I cared about my image as opposed to my message then I would say things in a more likable way to appease the masses. That would me manipulation and greed on different levels though. I don't care to misconstrue the things I know to appease others. To do such would be to neglect what I know is right and could have severe consequences, not to mention diluting the truth.

If you cared about your message, you would be better off attempting to be learning how to spread it in ways that can make it spread. You don't have to be manipulative, and it's not like you're some pinnacle of complete dishonesty.

How many times do you ignore direct questions, constantly. Why do you do this? How many times have you gone on about positivity while countering that with the negative ranting hate filled comments. So you clearly neglect what you know is "right" all the time. You just apparently don't know how to communicate at any reasonable manner still, and aren't getting better at it because your just rather insist your way is right despite no evidence of a benefit to it here. Of course you don't really care for anything describable, just stick to what you feel is right to work through it. So how about it, why don't you answer direct questions all the time?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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06-11-2015, 04:12 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:57 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 03:23 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  29 year active duty atheist Navy Officer *points to avatar* that is me. Chaplains provide several important counseling, religious services etc....they also plaster religious propaganda all over the message boards, on the hallways etc..."advertising" their services to service members. I dont have a problem with that, I have a problem that it is plastered on every wall in the command....feels....oppressive. I dislike that everytime I have had to interact with one of these overpaid social workers who play officer that they always ask, are you a member of faith? If the answer is no, "well perhaps if you give god a chance, he can help you with this problem".....or..."Perhaps giving faith a chance can provide you with an appropriate coping mechanism for blah blah blah".

These tools actually get assigned to give the Wardroom training on ethics, morals, and conduct...like they have a fucking clue about ethics, morals or conduct...read the bible? Providing people who are infected with faith a sympathetic ear they can relate to is important. The same counseling service can be done with a secular chaplain, I think we are getting those now...good. I hate that we are supposed to separate faith from government, yet every Navy ship has the chaplain come on the 1MC (Intercom)5 mins before "taps" (10pm) and say a prayer...so i have to lay in my bed and listen to chaplain timmy drone on about god, and corinthians 2....guess what? not everyone is christian on board, and shouldnt be subjected to this under the guise of "tradition".

I hate that every official wardroom function dear old overpaid chaps has to start and finish the meeting/dinner/conference with a fucking prayer....dont like it? tough shit...its "tradition".

Don't think because you decided you want to exploit the chaplain game to proselytize to junior folks who wont tell you they would rather not hear it because you are wearing bars on your collar makes you somehow an expert on chaplains, or their interactions with others who come from a wide diverse background of beliefs. No, I have NEVER been exposed to a chaplain who didnt bring god into the conversation within the first 3 sentences.

As soon as they find out you are an atheist, and politely inform them of such, their smile fades and the rudeness begins. The senior Chaplain sent out a mandatory ethics training for all officers, and it referenced MULTIPLE biblical scriptures as a lesson to learn from. I openly and vehemently destroyed him, his references and his audacity to assume his audience (all officers) would be welcoming of his reference to fairy tales as an example of ethics. Last time that happened.

So no Jason, you are not the expert.
One nation under God. Do you remember that. Pretty sure you took an oath under a similar statement. So yeah you may be subjected to religious views seeing as how you took an oath under such.

Yeah -- and you and Senator McCarthy (the douchebag who was instrumental in the change of the pledge) can BOTH kiss my heathen ass.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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06-11-2015, 04:24 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
Anyhow, about that flat earth....


[Image: 1680x1050_discworld-terry-pratchett-wall...1434127785]



Fiction. Pure fiction.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

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06-11-2015, 04:36 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 04:12 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 03:57 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  One nation under God. Do you remember that. Pretty sure you took an oath under a similar statement. So yeah you may be subjected to religious views seeing as how you took an oath under such.

Yeah -- and you and Senator McCarthy (the douchebag who was instrumental in the change of the pledge) can BOTH kiss my heathen ass.....
Dude I was inlisted in 99 was it changed prior to that year? This country was literally founded under God in persute of freedom, liberty and equality. If you don't like those facts them don't join the service. Evidently the oath has been changed to allow for atheists anyway so what's the problem?
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