Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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02-11-2015, 05:52 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy this?
(01-11-2015 08:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(01-11-2015 08:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  How can you possibly claim to know what God knows? Facepalm

Are you arrogant or just delusional? Consider
I specifically stated that God knows. Not me. Congrats on that stellar comprehension. Perhaps I should congratulate you on yet another attempt at misconstrueing my words.

I see that your reading comprehension is still abysmal. How can you think that you understand what you've read in scriptures when you can't follow a simple question?


(02-11-2015 12:00 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  That is all based of the understanding of man at that time. Directions, pillars, cornerstones are things that keep a structure sound. It is all philosophical, not implying that the earth was flat, but that the things they spoke of were the actual ties that bind that held great significance for life and existence as we know it.

Yes, it is all writings of people trying to understand their world. There is nothing about it that shows any evidence of divine understanding. That's the problem.

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02-11-2015, 06:13 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(01-11-2015 08:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-11-2015 07:47 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Heaven can refer to the atmosphere and space and the universe. God knows it's breadth and depth.

How can you possibly claim to know what God knows? Facepalm

Are you arrogant or just delusional? Consider

I believe the conjunction that applies in this case would be "and."
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02-11-2015, 06:30 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(01-11-2015 07:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(01-11-2015 06:42 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I will just place this here...

Biblical flat world

The phrase of Isaiah 40:22, "the circle of the earth" is very controversial. There are a couple main views of this phrase. The first interpretation says that the word "circle" means "sphere" indicating that the earth is a sphere. This view seems most unlikely since we have all ready seen that the Hebrew word gh means "circle," and it seems very remote that it means "sphere" because of the context, and there is a better Hebrew word for "sphere," rwd. In Isaiah 22:18 the word rwd is translated "ball." If the LXX translators understood gh as "sphere," they would have used the Greek word sfairoeides. Plugging the meaning of "sphere" into every passage that gh occurs will result in awkward interpretations.

The second interpretation is that the earth is a round flat disk. Although the ancient world thought the earth was round and flat, this phrase seems to refer to the shape the vaulted heavens above the earth from which the inhabitants look like grasshoppers.

this same fictional book further purports the world is flat,

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

corners? no no, sry it is a round sphere....ah, guess the lord and creator wasnt aware of that.

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

Job 11:9
The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

Job 28:24
For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Job 37:3
He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Job 38:4-6
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Jeremiah 16:19
O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Daniel 4:11
The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth

In most if not in all of these quotes symbolism is used. Prophets are like poets sometimes. They like this kind of language - symbolism, symbolism, symbolism. Thumbsup

I agree, symbolism, parables, and allegorical writing makeup the vast majority of the bible..jesus's resurrection...symbolism....great mythical global flood...symbolism...exodus...symbolism....god...symbolism....original sin...symbolism....moses...symbolism....etc....etc. For once we agree Smile

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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02-11-2015, 06:36 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2015 06:56 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 12:00 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(01-11-2015 06:42 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I will just place this here...

Biblical flat world

The phrase of Isaiah 40:22, "the circle of the earth" is very controversial. There are a couple main views of this phrase. The first interpretation says that the word "circle" means "sphere" indicating that the earth is a sphere. This view seems most unlikely since we have all ready seen that the Hebrew word gh means "circle," and it seems very remote that it means "sphere" because of the context, and there is a better Hebrew word for "sphere," rwd. In Isaiah 22:18 the word rwd is translated "ball." If the LXX translators understood gh as "sphere," they would have used the Greek word sfairoeides. Plugging the meaning of "sphere" into every passage that gh occurs will result in awkward interpretations.

The second interpretation is that the earth is a round flat disk. Although the ancient world thought the earth was round and flat, this phrase seems to refer to the shape the vaulted heavens above the earth from which the inhabitants look like grasshoppers.

this same fictional book further purports the world is flat,

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

corners? no no, sry it is a round sphere....ah, guess the lord and creator wasnt aware of that.

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

Job 11:9
The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

Job 28:24
For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Job 37:3
He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Job 38:4-6
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Jeremiah 16:19
O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Daniel 4:11
The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth
That is all based of the understanding of man at that time. Directions, pillars, cornerstones are things that keep a structure sound. It is all philosophical, not implying that the earth was flat, but that the things they spoke of were the actual ties that bind that held great significance for life and existence as we know it.

Peace

You are getting closer pops...The whole thing is a fabrication by man, and when you analyze it from that angle, it all lines up with that posit. Great example is the ten commandments....no mention of rape or slavery making god's top ten sin list...because man...who made it up, didn't think that was bad....but covet not thy neighbor's wife made the cut....When you examine this collection of whimsical, mythical, allegorical writings from the viewpoint of "man" wrote it, while considering the cultural influence, scientific knowledge, and philosophical perspectives of the time, it all comes together...one big fabricated story. Why is it raining so hard and flooding out our little village? god is angry and demands sacrifice..we have angered him by not offering enough burnt meat...this made sense to them because they were very familiar with how hunger feels, and equated that to the creator of the world being angered, thus demanding sustenance to appease it. Funny how the bible has such specific directions for how the meat shall be prepared, and the choicest cuts given to god, and of course the priests who wrote this drivel, would collect the meat for "god"....I wonder why? Consider

Rolleyes etc etc etc....

THINK pops....evolve beyond the myth....

Keep chasing the bunny pops, you just may find your way back to the truth.

I completely agree it is all philosophical. The very concept of a god is based on philosophy and man's meager attempt to explain things they could not.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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02-11-2015, 07:51 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 06:36 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 12:00 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  That is all based of the understanding of man at that time. Directions, pillars, cornerstones are things that keep a structure sound. It is all philosophical, not implying that the earth was flat, but that the things they spoke of were the actual ties that bind that held great significance for life and existence as we know it.

Peace

You are getting closer pops...The whole thing is a fabrication by man, and when you analyze it from that angle, it all lines up with that posit. Great example is the ten commandments....no mention of rape or slavery making god's top ten sin list...because man...who made it up, didn't think that was bad....but covet not thy neighbor's wife made the cut....When you examine this collection of whimsical, mythical, allegorical writings from the viewpoint of "man" wrote it, while considering the cultural influence, scientific knowledge, and philosophical perspectives of the time, it all comes together...one big fabricated story. Why is it raining so hard and flooding out our little village? god is angry and demands sacrifice..we have angered him by not offering enough burnt meat...this made sense to them because they were very familiar with how hunger feels, and equated that to the creator of the world being angered, thus demanding sustenance to appease it. Funny how the bible has such specific directions for how the meat shall be prepared, and the choicest cuts given to god, and of course the priests who wrote this drivel, would collect the meat for "god"....I wonder why? Consider

Rolleyes etc etc etc....

THINK pops....evolve beyond the myth....

Keep chasing the bunny pops, you just may find your way back to the truth.

I completely agree it is all philosophical. The very concept of a god is based on philosophy and man's meager attempt to explain things they could not.
Burnt sacrifices where a misconception by the greed of man. Sacrifice is to be of want of the flesh(greed). Scripture of course is written by man. Faith was before written history so of course it was handed down by word of mouth. Nature and all the explainable and inexplicable are of God. It is the same as it was back them. Where people less technologically advanced in ancient times and time before history? Yes. Where there more superstitious due to a lack of in-depth understanding of how things work? Sure. Where they more in touch with a part of reality that connects to us all and connects us all, and also more understanding that all is not of man or contained by the thoughts and ideals of man? Definitely. I don't refute that man has written scripture. I deny that they did it wholly out of greed as opposed to out of the want to pass on things that they knew where pertinent to existence.

Peace
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02-11-2015, 08:22 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 07:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I don't refute that man has written scripture. I deny that they did it wholly out of greed as opposed to out of the want to pass on things that they knew where pertinent to existence.

Peace

Gotcha! I did not know that you feel that rape, genocide, slavery, and the utter human torment and torture prescribed in those scriptures is "pertinent to existence". Nice to know Blink

You funny pops! (pass on pertinent things - you have to try harder than that around here)

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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02-11-2015, 09:19 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 08:22 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 07:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I don't refute that man has written scripture. I deny that they did it wholly out of greed as opposed to out of the want to pass on things that they knew where pertinent to existence.

Peace

Gotcha! I did not know that you feel that rape, genocide, slavery, and the utter human torment and torture prescribed in those scriptures is "pertinent to existence". Nice to know Blink

You funny pops! (pass on pertinent things - you have to try harder than that around here)
Didn't say shit about what I feel. I stated that most scripture is of like reasoning for and for the good of all, however some things placed in the Old Testament and other scriptural works of man inspired by God were not only mis construed but also placed by man for their own selfish wants and reasoning. It is known that the OT was inaccurate in part. If it was not there would have been no reason for the New Covenant. The things you speak of are of man, not God. Please, please do not assume things about what I feel, believe, or know. If you are curious about my personal stance on any particular chapter, verse, or book of scripture then please simply ask. I will in turn do my best not to assume things about you.
Thank you sincerely.
Peace.
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02-11-2015, 09:42 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 09:19 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 08:22 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Gotcha! I did not know that you feel that rape, genocide, slavery, and the utter human torment and torture prescribed in those scriptures is "pertinent to existence". Nice to know Blink

You funny pops! (pass on pertinent things - you have to try harder than that around here)
Didn't say shit about what I feel. I stated that most scripture is of like reasoning for and for the good of all, however some things placed in the Old Testament and other scriptural works of man inspired by God were not only mis construed but also placed by man for their own selfish wants and reasoning. It is known that the OT was inaccurate in part. If it was not there would have been no reason for the New Covenant. The things you speak of are of man, not God. Please, please do not assume things about what I feel, believe, or know. If you are curious about my personal stance on any particular chapter, verse, or book of scripture then please simply ask. I will in turn do my best not to assume things about you.
Thank you sincerely.
Peace.

Calm down - just a snarky comment and generalization to draw attention to the idiocy of your statements. So just the horrible parts of the OT are inaccurate? So the old credit god with the good and man with the bad defense - please try harder.

You pretend to know things that you don't, and make unproven claims, which you should just stop doing if you do not care to get a sarcastic comment thrown your way.

BTW - it is all about what you "feel" and not about what you know as fact.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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02-11-2015, 09:48 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 09:42 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 09:19 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Didn't say shit about what I feel. I stated that most scripture is of like reasoning for and for the good of all, however some things placed in the Old Testament and other scriptural works of man inspired by God were not only mis construed but also placed by man for their own selfish wants and reasoning. It is known that the OT was inaccurate in part. If it was not there would have been no reason for the New Covenant. The things you speak of are of man, not God. Please, please do not assume things about what I feel, believe, or know. If you are curious about my personal stance on any particular chapter, verse, or book of scripture then please simply ask. I will in turn do my best not to assume things about you.
Thank you sincerely.
Peace.

Calm down - just a snarky comment and generalization to draw attention to the idiocy of your statements. So just the horrible parts of the OT are inaccurate? So the old credit god with the good and man with the bad defense - please try harder.

You pretend to know things that you don't, and make unproven claims, which you should just stop doing if you do not care to get a sarcastic comment thrown your way.

BTW - it is all about what you "feel" and not about what you know as fact.
I'm calm. Put words in my mouth if you want.

Man is the only observable thing I know of that doesn't show unwavering direction under God for the sake of existence. So yes man and greed responsible for the negativity and division in scripture that was written by man. Is that difficult for you to understand? The Torah was passed of through word of mouth at one point. It is easy to see that through this transfer of knowledge the powers that be at that time would have greedily taken the opportunity to set themselves up in privilege over others for their own gain.
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02-11-2015, 10:26 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 09:48 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 09:42 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Calm down - just a snarky comment and generalization to draw attention to the idiocy of your statements. So just the horrible parts of the OT are inaccurate? So the old credit god with the good and man with the bad defense - please try harder.

You pretend to know things that you don't, and make unproven claims, which you should just stop doing if you do not care to get a sarcastic comment thrown your way.

BTW - it is all about what you "feel" and not about what you know as fact.
I'm calm. Put words in my mouth if you want.

Man is the only observable thing I know of that doesn't show unwavering direction under God for the sake of existence. So yes man and greed responsible for the negativity and division in scripture that was written by man. Is that difficult for you to understand? The Torah was passed of through word of mouth at one point. It is easy to see that through this transfer of knowledge the powers that be at that time would have greedily taken the opportunity to set themselves up in privilege over others for their own gain.

Can't you say that of all scriptures where man writes about their god/prophets/savior/messiah? How would you determine what is attributed to man or god?

And yes it is difficult for me to understand since I am not suffering from a total mindF$$K as you are. The whole thing was derived and written by man - that should not be hard to understand for any rational and thinking folk.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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