Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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06-11-2015, 11:18 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 10:28 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 10:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are ignorant.

Grief is a psychological matter. Someone trained in grief counseling is required - not someone with a fucking Master of Divinity. Facepalm
Psychology is a flawed science based on drugs to alter the chemicals in the brain instead of relieving the root problem by addressing and solving it.
Psychiatrist work with drugs not psychologist.
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06-11-2015, 11:21 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 11:18 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 10:28 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Psychology is a flawed science based on drugs to alter the chemicals in the brain instead of relieving the root problem by addressing and solving it.
Psychiatrist work with drugs not psychologist.
Are psychiatry and psychology based in the same scientific theories?
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06-11-2015, 11:30 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 11:21 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 11:18 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Psychiatrist work with drugs not psychologist.
Are psychiatry and psychology based in the same scientific theories?
Psychiatrist deal with more of the physical aspects of the brain. Like chemical imbalances. They can treat and diagnose conditions like chronic depression and such. They use medications to treat those conditions. Psychologists deal with mental disorders like sociopaths, psychopaths, or even simple phobias, ect.
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06-11-2015, 11:41 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 11:30 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 11:21 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Are psychiatry and psychology based in the same scientific theories?
Psychiatrist deal with more of the physical aspects of the brain. Like chemical imbalances. They can treat and diagnose conditions like chronic depression and such. They use medications to treat those conditions. Psychologists deal with mental disorders like sociopaths, psychopaths, or even simple phobias, ect.
So the latter aren't observable through the chemical balances of the brain?

Also are they not "treated" with medications similarly to the first set?
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07-11-2015, 12:29 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 11:05 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 11:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  Wrong.
The founders were largely gentlemen of The Enlightenment. There were Christians, deists, and atheists among them.
Ok so Christians and driests made up the majority. Isn't that what I said? Why are you knit picking? Those qualify as some sort of faith in God. Remember Faith; belief in things that can't be proven by the false enlightenment.

It's not just nit-picking. A Deist, while technically a believer in God, is otherwise indistinguishable from our position. They believe God created the universe originally, then left it alone completely. They don't believe in God-magic or the power of prayer or any of that rubbish. That's why Thomas Jefferson went through the gospels and physically clipped out all the magical stuff and mystical mumbo-jump, and left just the humanist teachings of Jesus... it's called the Jefferson Bible.

When he says "they were men of the Enlightenment", it's not just some throwaway phrase. It means people who were, at the time, on the cutting-edge of radical thought, believing in radical notions like humans having the right to govern themselves by consent, rather than the system they were under, in which the belief literally was that God had given the King the authority to declare what rights regular men had or didn't have (and women, of course, got their rights from the men who owned them--first the father, then the husband, which is why the bride is "given away" at wedding ceremonies), and the radical notion that all men were created equal. This is not so long ago in our history that it should be so easily forgotten!

While there were very few outright atheists, back then (Darwin was still a century away!), these men were called atheists in their own day by angry voters, and would certainly be unelectable in today's political environment. The myth of the United States being "a Christian Nation", simply because [any number or percent of them; it doesn't actually matter how many] were Christians, is both dangerous and disrespectful to those men who made this country and broke the chains of non-secular government from Europe. Even ones who were devout Christians, if they loved their new "government of the people, by the people, and for the people" (as Lincoln put it), would have fought to protect the right of every man in the fledgling States to practice his faith and his government as he saw fit. What they believed as a person would be beside the point because the entire idea is that each man must be free to practice as his conscience saw fit. To say otherwise is to disgrace our founding fathers unless we have clear evidence that they were more allied to the idea of Christian dominionism than our pluralistic democracy.

I think the founders would have greatly approved of men like Captain Delisle, here, trying to fulfill his religious- and social-guidance duties to all Americans equally, without bias or disdain, in service to the secular Constitution that they wrote.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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07-11-2015, 02:49 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:05 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 02:33 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If the govt and military were less religious they would send professionals rather than chaplains.
The military won't send civilian counselors in a combat zone. What's plan b?
Hire proper counselors into the military rather than have religious chaplains double as this role.
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07-11-2015, 02:58 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 03:04 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Ok. I guess you are right. I guess I should tell the atheist Marine of mine who is in the ICU that his request for a chaplain is denied because they are of no use to him.
You're being a bit silly here. If they have requested a religious chaplain, perhaps they are desperate and have no better options available.

I'm suggesting having properly trained people available rather than a religious adviser who doubles as a councilor.


(06-11-2015 03:49 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  A chaplain would have experience in counseling simply from talking to people about their problems.
This isn't really a qualification is it? Any other person "grunt" etc would be equally as capable and possibly even more so (for an atheist) given they are not going to think "bad" things happen because it is part of god's plan. The religious chaplain's real value is his knowledge in religion and ability to cater to those special needs. For the religious people they may see great value in this chaplain.
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07-11-2015, 03:03 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 11:17 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  ...
Saying that I am ignorant on most subjects is Bs.
...

It was your claim.

You have told us that you were poorly educated and that you can't be bothered to read books.

Make your mind up.

Drinking Beverage

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07-11-2015, 03:34 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 03:03 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 11:17 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  ...
Saying that I am ignorant on most subjects is Bs.
...

It was your claim.

You have told us that you were poorly educated and that you can't be bothered to read books.

Make your mind up.

Drinking Beverage

Is that surprising? Has pops ever been anything more than bluster and posturing? He pretends like he knows something, until it's literally impossible for him to continue to attempt to pass off his stream of ignorance as anything but, and then he switches to being super defensive about being called out, before ending with coping out on doing any work to actually learn anything at all. He's just as unapologetic and blithely ignorant now as when he first got here. He only seems to care about shooting off his mouth, not actually putting the work in to learn something; he's intellectually dead.

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07-11-2015, 05:27 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 10:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 07:31 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Many of the early settlers were religious but the United States proper was founded as a secular nation. The US constitution defines the framework and it has 3 mentions of god:
1. restricting the government from establishing a religion or preventing people from exercising whatever religion they choose
2. prohibiting any religious test for holding public office
3. the date uses the conventional AD notation
That would not be the case if the founders had wanted to base it on religious belief.

Neither "God" nor "'Jesus" appears anywhere in the Constitution. No

I stand corrected. I should have said there were only 3 references that were religious in nature rather than use such generic language. (although I could get pedantic and note that the close reads "done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven" -- that's not a reference to "god" but a reference to "our Lord" is close enough Tongue)

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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