Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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07-11-2015, 10:22 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 10:20 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 10:18 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Lack of knowledge of a given subject.

Hmm, so then you're saying you're utterly stupid? And he's wrong to call you ignorant because he is confusing it with your utter stupidity?
What? No. I know little about American history. That is the topic I lack particular knowledge of.

That in no way means I am stupid.
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07-11-2015, 10:26 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 10:22 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 10:20 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Hmm, so then you're saying you're utterly stupid? And he's wrong to call you ignorant because he is confusing it with your utter stupidity?
What? No. I know little about American history. That is the topic I lack particular knowledge of.

That in no way means I am stupid.

I get it, but that's not what you actually said in your little wording towards Chas of saying, it's not X it's Y.

You said, he confuses your ignorance with utter stupidity.

Sure, it was just something of a mixup as he or nobody ever lately in this thread said something about Stupidity. But you really weren't saying anything. I guess you kinda were trying to say what, he confuses your ignorance with ignorance? It just kinda highlights the problem here.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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07-11-2015, 10:39 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 11:41 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Also are they not "treated" with medications similarly to the first set?
Psychologists can't prescribe medication. Think of it as an optometrist and ophthalmologist.

Psychologists and optometrists deal with the client externally. They measure and test, and they deal with it accordingly.

Should they find more, they can refer you to someone who works internally. Psychiatrists deal with the meds. But you're allowed to stick with the psychologist if you don't want meds.or can't take them.
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07-11-2015, 10:44 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 10:26 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You said, he confuses your ignorance with utter stupidity.

Why can't Pops be both? Dodgy

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-11-2015, 11:10 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 10:06 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 10:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  He has the right to an atheist chaplain. Drinking Beverage

You think you live in the Netherlands or Belgium? Ain't no atheist or humanist chaplains in the US Military. 'Cause that would be persecution of the Christians.



Unfortunately Chas you are wrong. In the United States military. There are no atheist chaplains. ...yet. The argument against atheist chaplains is ironically the same argument that many on this forum used to discredit the reasons why an atheist would ever choose to turn to a chaplain for help. People have made it very clear on this forum that there is absolutely no reason for an atheist to choose a chaplain when there are many "professionally qualified" alternatives that are non religious (therapist, counselors, psychologists, ect.) In this particular video that argument turned against atheists.
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07-11-2015, 11:17 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
I am going to cut to the chase. I would like to know how atheist are persecuted and subjected to persecution. I would also like to know if there are any vets on this forum who can tell me about their experiences in the military where they were mistreated for their beliefs or religious views. Please don't hold anything back. The more information I am given the better I can protect and provide support for the service members. Thank you.
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07-11-2015, 11:19 AM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2015 11:29 AM by Full Circle.)
Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(06-11-2015 12:32 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Is there anyone here who can claim they have a better understanding about military chaplains than I do. Are there any atheist here who were former military chaplains? So why are there so many experts here about chaplains and how atheist service members have benefitted from them? I would assume that as an active duty Marine officer who is training to become a chaplain that this may be the one topic that I should be a credible source.

Dig the new avatar.

On a more serious note, I have a few questions for you from the point of view of an atheist soldier if I were in the military.

1. Can you provide grief counseling without religious platitudes?

To me this is a very important question for you. In my experience of breaking the chains of religion it has taken me years to overcome the knee-jerk thinking and responses of my indoctrination. How will you avoid them if you are still fully immersed in them?

Can you honestly say that you can forgo the fall back religious platitudes when dealing with an atheist Marine in life and death situations such as:

Things happen for a reason
You’re going to a better world
God loves you
Trust in God
God will give you strength
God is calling to you
Confess your sins and soon you’ll be at the right hand of the Father
Pray with me

etc., etc.

In my opinion a person like you who is still very much a believer will NOT be able to avoid these in the heat of the moment, at least not without a great deal of self-control and practice.

I can tell you that if it were me on that field and I was in need of a helping hand and a sympathetic ear I would not want to hear any of the above. Your challenge is to figure out what to say to best help a humanist/atheist soldier when the time comes that is not tinted with the religious.

2. Are you trained in grief counseling psychotherapy?

Practiced incorrectly this can have detrimental effects.
"At present (as of 2008), a controversy exists in the scholarly literature regarding grief therapy's relative efficacy and the possible harm from it (iatrogenesis). Researchers have suggested that people may resort to receiving grief therapy in the absence of complicated (or abnormal) grief reactions and that, in such cases, grief therapy may cause a normal bereavement response to turn pathological.[9]” Though I hardly think anything can be called “normal” on a forward base of operations.

Jason I applaud your determination to help others and hope that your efforts truly comfort those in need, having said that I leave you with a nugget from my father-in-law...may God rest his soul.

My FIL used to say that, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, was misguided, instead it would be better to, “Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.”

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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07-11-2015, 11:24 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 11:17 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I am going to cut to the chase. I would like to know how atheist are persecuted and subjected to persecution.

You mean other than being shunned by their families?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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07-11-2015, 11:31 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 11:19 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  “Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.”

The Platinum Rule.

Was your FIL a philosopher? The Platinum Rule is not well known in the genpop.

#sigh
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07-11-2015, 11:38 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 11:19 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 12:32 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Is there anyone here who can claim they have a better understanding about military chaplains than I do. Are there any atheist here who were former military chaplains? So why are there so many experts here about chaplains and how atheist service members have benefitted from them? I would assume that as an active duty Marine officer who is training to become a chaplain that this may be the one topic that I should be a credible source.

Dig the new avatar.

On a more serious note, I have a few questions for you from the point of view of an atheist soldier if I were in the military.

1. Can you provide grief counseling without religious platitudes?

To me this is a very important question for you. In my experience of breaking the chains of religion it has taken me years to overcome the knee-jerk thinking and responses of my indoctrination. How will you avoid them if you are still fully immersed in them?

Can you honestly say that you can forgo the fall back religious platitudes when dealing with an atheist Marine in life and death situations such as:

Things happen for a reason
You’re going to a better world
God loves you
Trust in God
God will give you strength
God is calling to you
Confess your sins and soon you’ll be at the right hand of the Father
Pray with me

etc., etc.

In my opinion a person like you who is still very much a believer will NOT be able to avoid these in the heat of the moment, at least not without a great deal of self-control and practice.

I can tell you that if it were me on that field and I was in need of a helping hand and a sympathetic ear I would not want to hear any of the above. Your challenge is to figure out what to say to best help a humanist/atheist soldier when the time comes that is not tinted with the religious.

2. Are you trained in grief counseling psychotherapy?

Practiced incorrectly this can have detrimental effects.
"At present (as of 2008), a controversy exists in the scholarly literature regarding grief therapy's relative efficacy and the possible harm from it (iatrogenesis). Researchers have suggested that people may resort to receiving grief therapy in the absence of complicated (or abnormal) grief reactions and that, in such cases, grief therapy may cause a normal bereavement response to turn pathological.[9]” Though I hardly think anything can be called “normal” on a forward base of operations.

Jason I applaud your determination to help others and hope that your efforts truly comfort those in need, having said that I leave you with a nugget from my father-in-law RIP.

My FIL used to say that, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, was misguided, instead it would be better to, “Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.”
I appreciate your questions and they are very legitimate concerns. First I would like to say I believe I can provide assistance to an atheist without religious platitudes. I have done it before. I believe that sometimes the best thing to do to help is to simply listen or simply let them know "I care about you. I am here for you and you are important to me."

How am I going to prevent myself from the knee jerk use of platitudes? I plan to better understand atheists. It is why I am here on this forum. I want to break free from the religious bubble I have been familiar with in order to learn.

You are correct in your statement that I am not a professional counselor or have formal education on those subjects...yet. I am working on a masters in divinity but the specific syllabus that I am going through is specifically designed for those pursuing careers in military chaplaincy. This includes courses in grief counseling, marriage, ptsd, and counseling to the dying and wounded. The courses are not centered around religion. Now this will hardly qualify me as a certified psychologist but it is a start to become better equipped with the tools and experience to help everyone who needs it.
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