Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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07-11-2015, 11:46 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 11:17 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I am going to cut to the chase. I would like to know how atheist are persecuted and subjected to persecution.

There are no atheists or humanist chaplains seems to qualify as institutional persecution.

(07-11-2015 11:17 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I would also like to know if there are any vets on this forum who can tell me about their experiences in the military where they were mistreated for their beliefs or religious views.

Never happened to me. We didn't give a shit about each other's metaphysics and we talked openly about them. All anybody cared about was could we do our job and did we have each other's back. There were jokes of course.

"God have mercy on our souls, except GirlyMan obviously." "Don't worry, I'll have mercy on your souls."

"There are no atheists in fox holes." "Who's gonna cover you while you pray for your sorry ass."

Good times.

#sigh
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07-11-2015, 11:46 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 10:22 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  ... I know little about American history. That is the topic I lack particular knowledge of.
That in no way means I am stupid ...

Ignorance in a particular subject is not stupidity. But excusing that ignorance or, worse, taking pride in that ignorance, IS stupidity. If a topic arises in a discussion, continued meaningful participation in that discussion will require getting to know something about it (smart), not tossing off a haughty "I dunno" but attempting to remark on it anyway (stupid).
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07-11-2015, 11:46 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 11:17 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I am going to cut to the chase. I would like to know how atheist are persecuted and subjected to persecution. I would also like to know if there are any vets on this forum who can tell me about their experiences in the military where they were mistreated for their beliefs or religious views. Please don't hold anything back. The more information I am given the better I can protect and provide support for the service members. Thank you.
Might be better as a new thread.
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07-11-2015, 11:48 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 11:31 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 11:19 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  “Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.”

The Platinum Rule.

Was your FIL a philosopher? The Platinum Rule is not well known in the genpop.

My FIL as some character, I'll have to tell you about him someday, you would have liked him.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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07-11-2015, 11:52 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 11:10 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  People have made it very clear on this forum that there is absolutely no reason for an atheist to choose a chaplain when there are many "professionally qualified" alternatives that are non religious (therapist, counselors, psychologists, ect.) In this particular video that argument turned against atheists.

I don't follow. I saw one asshole suggesting that atheist chaplains notifying parents and wives of the fallen would say that they are now worm food. I saw another asshole saying that atheist chaplains would counsel the dying that they have no future. And I saw a decent Episcopalian calling out the assholes in a way they didn't even understand. 'Cause they're assholes and shit. Please elaborate on your reasoning here.

#sigh
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07-11-2015, 12:18 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
Chaplain by definition isn't atheist I woulda thought. I thought the deal was that the guy was there to look after the souls of the morituri.

If it's a case of some guy with basic training in head-shrinking and they *call* him a chaplain I guess that's OK. But if I was at headquarters I'd feel decidedly uncomfortable about sending people off to combat with some bloke who's not *primarily* a head-shrinker but more of a shaman. Although I guess combat effectiveness of troops could be increased if they believe in the shaman. Which if they're atheist they don't.

Jason you mentioned that other useful aspect of chaplain is as figure of trust whom soldiers can talk to about problems without involving chain of command? 'Cos that is something useful I think, applies to everyone, not just religious people. Again though, I'd prefer not to have a shaman in that trust position.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-11-2015, 12:22 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 07:56 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 02:58 AM)Stevil Wrote:  You're being a bit silly here. If they have requested a religious chaplain, perhaps they are desperate and have no better options available.

I'm suggesting having properly trained people available rather than a religious adviser who doubles as a councilor.


This isn't really a qualification is it? Any other person "grunt" etc would be equally as capable and possibly even more so (for an atheist) given they are not going to think "bad" things happen because it is part of god's plan. The religious chaplain's real value is his knowledge in religion and ability to cater to those special needs. For the religious people they may see great value in this chaplain.
I am being silly? You and many others are trying to convince me that it is a bad idea for a military chaplain to counsel an atheist. But then when i sarcastically agree to show you how ignorant you are all of a sudden I am silly. I think what is really happened here is that through one specific real life example I disproved your claims and now you are butt hurt and trying to back track. What is the overall end state of your argument? To argue for the sake of arguing?

In your specific example, you added facts after we responded. All of a sudden, the chaplain is also a friend. In which capacity was he visiting - as a friend or as a friendly on-duty chaplain? I've had hot dogs and beer at a BBQ with my friend who happens to be a lawyer, and I've sat across his desk while we chatted amicably about a legal matter, and there is a difference.

Would you counsel a black Marine while wearing a KKK pin on your collar? How do you think that person would feel?

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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07-11-2015, 12:37 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 11:46 AM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 11:17 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I am going to cut to the chase. I would like to know how atheist are persecuted and subjected to persecution. I would also like to know if there are any vets on this forum who can tell me about their experiences in the military where they were mistreated for their beliefs or religious views. Please don't hold anything back. The more information I am given the better I can protect and provide support for the service members. Thank you.
Might be better as a new thread.
I thought about doing that today.
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07-11-2015, 12:38 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 10:16 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Chas,
You confuse absurdity with inconventionality. You confuse the right path shown through nature and other means under God with magic. You confuse ignorance on a topic with utter stupidity. You confuse strength, reserve, confidence, and perseverance with thick headedness or heedlessness.

Or possibly you are mistaken. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-11-2015, 12:42 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(07-11-2015 11:10 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 10:06 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You think you live in the Netherlands or Belgium? Ain't no atheist or humanist chaplains in the US Military. 'Cause that would be persecution of the Christians.



Unfortunately Chas you are wrong. In the United States military. There are no atheist chaplains. ...yet. The argument against atheist chaplains is ironically the same argument that many on this forum used to discredit the reasons why an atheist would ever choose to turn to a chaplain for help. People have made it very clear on this forum that there is absolutely no reason for an atheist to choose a chaplain when there are many "professionally qualified" alternatives that are non religious (therapist, counselors, psychologists, ect.) In this particular video that argument turned against atheists.

I am not wrong - the U.S. military is wrong.

There should be atheist chaplains because atheist servicemen have the right to be equally supported.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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