Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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02-11-2015, 10:32 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
POPS - you have admitted that you cannot trust the scriptures (since it was written by man from word of mouth, and that man likely altered them for his own purpose).

So I will ask, why pretend to know things you do not and cannot know?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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02-11-2015, 10:34 AM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 10:32 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  POPS - you have admitted that you cannot trust the scriptures (since it was written by man from word of mouth, and that man likely altered them for his own purpose).

So I will ask, why pretend to know things you do not and cannot know?

Common Timber, you know the answer is always “feels”.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-11-2015, 11:42 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2015 11:50 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 07:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 06:36 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  You are getting closer pops...The whole thing is a fabrication by man, and when you analyze it from that angle, it all lines up with that posit. Great example is the ten commandments....no mention of rape or slavery making god's top ten sin list...because man...who made it up, didn't think that was bad....but covet not thy neighbor's wife made the cut....When you examine this collection of whimsical, mythical, allegorical writings from the viewpoint of "man" wrote it, while considering the cultural influence, scientific knowledge, and philosophical perspectives of the time, it all comes together...one big fabricated story. Why is it raining so hard and flooding out our little village? god is angry and demands sacrifice..we have angered him by not offering enough burnt meat...this made sense to them because they were very familiar with how hunger feels, and equated that to the creator of the world being angered, thus demanding sustenance to appease it. Funny how the bible has such specific directions for how the meat shall be prepared, and the choicest cuts given to god, and of course the priests who wrote this drivel, would collect the meat for "god"....I wonder why? Consider

Rolleyes etc etc etc....

THINK pops....evolve beyond the myth....

Keep chasing the bunny pops, you just may find your way back to the truth.

I completely agree it is all philosophical. The very concept of a god is based on philosophy and man's meager attempt to explain things they could not.
Burnt sacrifices where a misconception by the greed of man. Sacrifice is to be of want of the flesh(greed). Scripture of course is written by man. Faith was before written history so of course it was handed down by word of mouth. Nature and all the explainable and inexplicable are of God. It is the same as it was back them. Where people less technologically advanced in ancient times and time before history? Yes. Where there more superstitious due to a lack of in-depth understanding of how things work? Sure. Where they more in touch with a part of reality that connects to us all and connects us all, and also more understanding that all is not of man or contained by the thoughts and ideals of man? Definitely. I don't refute that man has written scripture. I deny that they did it wholly out of greed as opposed to out of the want to pass on things that they knew where pertinent to existence.

Peace

I agree to the obvious assertions that they were less technologically astute, and more superstitious than we are now. More in touch with "part of reality that connects to us all" is philosophical word salad. It isn't reality. It is the faith based, and philosophical perspective of the possibility of a transcendental world that has zero tangible evidence. We can sit around the campfire, drink wine, and slap our lips together making up "wouldn't it be cool if..." scenarios all day, but that doesn't make them real without evidence, even if every single person in the world believed them. They would simply be a fact less, physical expression of neurological flatulence.

What did they "know was pertinent to existence?" They didn't "know" anything that has zero proof. You don't "know" Christ, god or any of this child like world you embrace. You may have faith (belief in something without evidence), you may hope it exists, you may even believe it exists based on faith and self delusion, but you don't "know".


(02-11-2015 09:48 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 09:42 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Calm down - just a snarky comment and generalization to draw attention to the idiocy of your statements. So just the horrible parts of the OT are inaccurate? So the old credit god with the good and man with the bad defense - please try harder.

You pretend to know things that you don't, and make unproven claims, which you should just stop doing if you do not care to get a sarcastic comment thrown your way.

BTW - it is all about what you "feel" and not about what you know as fact.
I'm calm. Put words in my mouth if you want.

Man is the only observable thing I know of that doesn't show unwavering direction under God for the sake of existence. So yes man and greed responsible for the negativity and division in scripture that was written by man. Is that difficult for you to understand? The Torah was passed of through word of mouth at one point. It is easy to see that through this transfer of knowledge the powers that be at that time would have greedily taken the opportunity to set themselves up in privilege over others for their own gain.

Okay pops, now bear with me for a minute. Man is hugely fallible in regards to maintaining accuracy of oral stories. I know you remember the telephone game right? Man also LOVES to tell stories, and the bigger the story, the more magic in the story, the better the story is. Man also LOVES to exaggerate stories. They get bigger with each subsequent retelling. Sprinkle in personal agenda, superstition and ignorance of the laws of nature and you get the oldest myths which were promulgated into what became the Torah. The tall tales that are spun in the Torah by the never-existed moses were taken from older Sumerian, greek and Babylonian myths.

Now this is where you will probably interject "god's infinite power ensured the integrity of the word". If and when you say that, it is a checkmate win for me. Because the "infinite power of god ensured the integrity blah blah blah" apparently didn't happen. Which is why there is an epic level of inconsistencies, lies, forgeries, allegorical writings, parables, pseudepigrapha, fiction, and fantasy within the bible.

I can, have and will continue to prove that to great detail.

Smartass

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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02-11-2015, 12:12 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(01-11-2015 03:36 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Stevil Wrote:What is god, how big is god, what does god weigh, what is god made of, how is god able to think without a physical brain? Can you answer these questions?
goodwithoutgod Wrote:Who heard god say anything?
Who was sitting there beside god in never never land of nothingness with a pen and paper writing down what this god said in reference to creating light?
Where did god say he created heaven and earth? Who was there to record that? What is god. How big is god? What is before god? Which god?
Can you answer these questions?
Sure, I can answer them.
These are great questions. But there is one problem. People who ask them don't want to know the answers.
Alla, if you don't mind me asking, if you don't want to answer questions then why are you on this forum? What do you hope to accomplish by being here? Why would you assume that the people in this community are not worth having an answer because you assume nobody cares about your answers.
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02-11-2015, 12:26 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
Alla, are you a Christian? What denomination are you? Why do you believe that "we are all gods"? Do you not understand that Psalm 82 is saying that God is above all other gods and that the word "gods" had quotations? This is ironic because you claim that we are all gods by using a scripture that is intended to rebuke anyone or anything that claims to be a god.
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02-11-2015, 12:37 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 12:26 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Alla, are you a Christian? What denomination are you? Why do you believe that "we are all gods"? Do you not understand that Psalm 82 is saying that God is above all other gods and that the word "gods" had quotations? This is ironic because you claim that we are all gods by using a scripture that is intended to rebuke anyone or anything that claims to be a god.

Alla is a Mormon. I dragged her through the schoolyard on her religion awhile back. She is....well how do I say this...fully indoctrinated in the dogma propagated by her church. They believe we can all obtain godhood, and that we can all be saints.

See it here: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...-Mormonism

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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02-11-2015, 12:38 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2015 12:49 PM by jason_delisle.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 12:37 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 12:26 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Alla, are you a Christian? What denomination are you? Why do you believe that "we are all gods"? Do you not understand that Psalm 82 is saying that God is above all other gods and that the word "gods" had quotations? This is ironic because you claim that we are all gods by using a scripture that is intended to rebuke anyone or anything that claims to be a god.

Alla is a Mormon. I dragged her through the schoolyard on her religion awhile back. She is....well how do I say this...fully indoctrinated in the dogma propagated by her church.

See it here: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...-Mormonism
Now I am facepalming. My only recommendation to her is that before she uses scripture, make sure she actually knows what it is saying and for the love of everything holy and pure don't use a scripture that completely rebukes your statement.

Second thought, I thought that in the Mormon religion only a handful of the most righteous believers are able to achieve the "God status". So to say that "we are all gods" is not even true to the Mormon faith (from my understanding). Now I am not a Mormon and I have a very limited insight in the book of mormon so I don't actually know if what you said is a false statement. But I am curious to know the answer to my perceived contradiction to your statement.
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02-11-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 12:38 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Now I am facepalming. My only recommendation to her is that before she uses scripture, make sure she actually knows what it is saying and for the love of everything holy and pure don't use a scripture that completely rebukes your statement.

They believe the Book of Moron is real truth and the Bible is screwed up. Or that's what a friend long ago told me when he converted for his fiancée.

Oops, Book of Mormon.
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02-11-2015, 12:50 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2015 01:01 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 12:47 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 12:38 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Now I am facepalming. My only recommendation to her is that before she uses scripture, make sure she actually knows what it is saying and for the love of everything holy and pure don't use a scripture that completely rebukes your statement.

They believe the Book of Moron is real truth and the Bible is screwed up. Or that's what a friend long ago told me when he converted for his fiancée.

Oops, Book of Mormon.

Only thing funnier than Book of Mormon is the book of Abraham, and of course scientology's "final document" Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

Final Document available to all OTIIIs and above in Scientology.

http://jeta.home.xs4all.nl/scn/ot3/ot3.html

"The head of the Galactic Federation (76 planets around larger stars visible from here) (founded 95,000,000 years ago, very space opera) solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet - 178 billion on average) by mass implanting..

He caused people to be brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H-Bomb on the principal volcanos (incident II) and then the Pacific area ones were taken - in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic area ones to Las Palmas and there "packaged".

His name was Xenu. He used renegades. Various misleading data by means of circuits etc was placed in the unplants. When through with his crime loyal officers (to the people) captured him after six years of battle and put him in an electronic mountain trap where he still is. "They" are gone. The place (Confederation) has since been a desert.

The length and brutality of it all was such that this Confederation never recovered. The implant is calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it. This liability has been dispensed with by my tech development. One can freewheel through the implant and die unless it is approached as precisely outlined. The "freewheel" (auto-running on and on) lasts too long, denies sleep etc and one dies. So be careful to do only Incidents I and II as given and not plow around and fail to complete one thetan at a time.

In December 1967 1 know someone had to take the plunge. I did and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but only that given here is needful."
Ron Hubbard


buahahahahahahahahahaha wooooohooo you just can't make this shit up...well...wait, I guess you can Yes

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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02-11-2015, 12:54 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
I honestly don't have any issues with Mormons. I honestly respect their family values. Regardless of your beliefs, I think a lot of good can come from looking at the traditional Mormon family values as something to emulate.
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