Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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09-11-2015, 12:50 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(09-11-2015 12:49 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 12:27 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Indeed. As science changes, declare your favourite scriptures to be "obviously" non-literal, and that they must have "always" secretly agreed with whatever science you accept all along.

How compelling.
I have yet to find many justified literal interpretations in scriptures. This pertains to all scripture. The literal parts are those of which it is stated that we are to be selfless, giving and living in all that we do. Not for our benefit, but the benefit of existence. Scripture doesn't follow science. As science brings about evidence it is verified through scripture.
Loving, not living, all though they are intricately connected.
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09-11-2015, 12:52 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(09-11-2015 12:47 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 10:55 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Let me explain something to you that you apparently haven't grasped up until this point. Days represent eons or billions of years in the beginning of the text.
....because, if they didn't then the account in genesys would be absurd when put against the scientific account.

Therefore, in order to make sense of the bible, we must interpret "days" to mean "eons". Now the problem is solved, now the bible is consistent with science. Tongue
Time was slower in the beginning. We can observe the dilation of time/ space through its expansion. The passage of time was different upon the beginning of its start as we know It.
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09-11-2015, 01:01 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
All this bickering over the Biblical account of creation, I think you theists missing the point of the book of Genesis. I'm an atheist and even I can see it.

Genesis is about family, and family dysfunction.

God creates children, gets mad when they disobey, curses them heavily, disowns them, and kicks them out of the house.

Abraham has a son with a slave girl at his wife's insistence, she gets jealous and pissy, Abe kicks them out of the house to wander the desert.

Isaac's first son, Esau, is a hard worker, and works hard to please and provide for his family. The second boy, Jacob, is a spoiled prat who lives to fuck his brother over. After swindling his brother out of his birthright when
e was starving to death after hunting for weeks, Jake and his mom devise a plan and screw his brother over again after tricking his blind father. Esau has lost everything and is cursed to wander the earth.

Jake has many sons, favors the first one by his favorite wife, declares him heir, and tge older brothers fake his death and sell him into a life of hard labor. He rises ro the station of Egypt's prime Upper Manager, has mercy on those who previously fucked him over, and reunites his family, saving them from starvation.

Yes, there were a few side stories that I left out, but the moral of the Genesis fable is clear: Love your children, parents, brothers, sisters, other extended family members, and friends, don't fuck them over (or kill them) because of petty jealousies.

If you're focusing solely on whether or not the events of the book actually took place (personally, I don't think that they did), you're wasting your time and have missed the point. It's no different than any of Aesop's fables or Robert Heinlein's novels.

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09-11-2015, 01:02 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(09-11-2015 12:46 PM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 12:02 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  What was the point of invoking that kind of metaphor? In ordinary communications we only invoke metaphors to some purpose, usually clarity. Muddying up meaning with an arbitrary metaphor is counter-productive, not something anyone would do ON PURPOSE. Least of all some "perfect" deity trying to put across an important point. If the process of creation took aeons, say it took aeons, don't say it took "days".

That it is a pointless metaphor is proven by the fact that it only became a point of confusion AFTER science had found days an inappropriate metric. Prior to those discoveries the days metric did not evoke scrutiny. Prior to those discoveries there was no reason to suppose it was meant metaphorically.

The post hoc rationalization hammer is the most used tool in the religious toolbox, and every time it gets used it rebounds and bangs its users in the head, making them senseless to the futility of their chore. It's funny to watch though. Laugh out load

APK - you really need to write a book... lol I funny enjoy all of your posts / replies!
Not true at all. The Qur'an was around way before science found out anything about the fact that six days as we know them based on our current perception of time isn't sufficient for the creation of all as we know it. Your assumption is based on flawed logic. Sorry. Good try though.
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09-11-2015, 01:42 PM
RE:
(09-11-2015 12:52 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 12:47 PM)Stevil Wrote:  ....because, if they didn't then the account in genesys would be absurd when put against the scientific account.

Therefore, in order to make sense of the bible, we must interpret "days" to mean "eons". Now the problem is solved, now the bible is consistent with science. Tongue
Time was slower in the beginning. We can observe the dilation of time/ space through its expansion. The passage of time was different upon the beginning of its start as we know It.

While it may be true that if you compare a clock in our present universe to a hypothetical clock in the universe right after the big bang, you would find that time ran slower, this certainly has no physical definition on our outlook. Right after the big bang the density of mass was much higher than it was now and even though time may have run slower, the entire universe at that time, had that same high density so any proclaimed observer wouldn't have noticed that time was running slower as they would have no way to compare clocks to one in a low density universe. The physics then worked just the same as now.

None of that matters though because your claim is a complete non-sequitur. You can't take a passage that says the earth and heavens were created in six days and shoe-horn that into some scientific information about time being slower so that you can account for the 9.16 billion year difference between the start of the universe and when earth was formed.

That is complete nonsense. Laugh out load Laugh out load Facepalm Facepalm

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09-11-2015, 02:05 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(09-11-2015 12:52 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 12:47 PM)Stevil Wrote:  ....because, if they didn't then the account in genesys would be absurd when put against the scientific account.

Therefore, in order to make sense of the bible, we must interpret "days" to mean "eons". Now the problem is solved, now the bible is consistent with science. Tongue
Time was slower in the beginning. We can observe the dilation of time/ space through its expansion. The passage of time was different upon the beginning of its start as we know It.
Like in the movie interstellar? I would have to say that days in gen 1 is not uses to measure time but rather to explain sequence. How long an earth day vs a god day is irrelevant .

But in the end it doesn't really matter. Nobody can prove anything anyway in regards to the origins of the universe.
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09-11-2015, 02:05 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(09-11-2015 10:55 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 07:00 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Too bad it got the order of all the events wrong, explicitly stated it happening on a time-line of days rather than billions of years, and strongly implied Pangaea separated within the last 5,000 years.

Your cherry picking is obvious. Your reasoning, ad hoc.
Let me explain something to you that you apparently haven't grasped up until this point. Days represent eons or billions of years in the beginning of the text.

Let me explain something that you apparently haven't grasped up until this point: Your cherry picking is obvious. Your reasoning, ad hoc.

You can make the Bible say anything you want so long as you pick and choose what you want explicit terms to mean. It's not even hard. I can spin a convincing story that God is evil for the lulz and that Satan is a fictitious scapegoat. Still, it's not like you'd take that interpretation seriously. Only the ones that match your previously held views (see: ad hoc).
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09-11-2015, 02:21 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(09-11-2015 01:42 PM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 12:52 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Time was slower in the beginning. We can observe the dilation of time/ space through its expansion. The passage of time was different upon the beginning of its start as we know It.

While it may be true that if you compare a clock in our present universe to a hypothetical clock in the universe right after the big bang, you would find that time ran slower, this certainly has no physical definition on our outlook. Right after the big bang the density of mass was much higher than it was now and even though time may have run slower, the entire universe at that time, had that same high density so any proclaimed observer wouldn't have noticed that time was running slower as they would have no way to compare clocks to one in a low density universe. The physics then worked just the same as now.

None of that matters though because your claim is a complete non-sequitur. You can't take a passage that says the earth and heavens were created in six days and shoe-horn that into some scientific information about time being slower so that you can account for the 9.16 billion year difference between the start of the universe and when earth was formed.

That is complete nonsense. Laugh out load Laugh out load Facepalm Facepalm

Indeed, there is no such thing as a single universal "time". So, with one sentence he proves he how completely and thoroughly he fails to understand relativity...

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09-11-2015, 02:28 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
How do we go about getting pops' username changed to "Piñata?" Everyone seems to have an easy, fun time knocking him around.

When does the candy rain down on us though?

There is no "I" in "team" but there is a broken and mixed up "me."
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09-11-2015, 02:30 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(09-11-2015 12:52 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The passage of time was different upon the beginning of its start as we know It.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but it has a nice ring to it.

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load
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