Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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10-11-2015, 02:36 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(09-11-2015 02:32 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 02:05 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Like in the movie interstellar? I would have to say that days in gen 1 is not uses to measure time but rather to explain sequence. How long an earth day vs a god day is irrelevant .

But in the end it doesn't really matter. Nobody can prove anything anyway in regards to the origins of the universe.

Sure we can. Google "WMAP"; I recommend the NASA/JPL website, which has several excellent articles on what it proves and why it is so. Just like anything else in science, you make predictions based on what the data suggests, you set up an experiment that will give you a different result if your prediction is wrong, and then you run the experiment to see if your prediction is falsified or not.

What we definitely know is that the ancient Hebrews were not experts on science, and that much of Genesis represents "best guess" imagination, most of which is based on what the cultures around them thought (which no one questions is dead-wrong; only being Biblical makes people keep holding on to the Hebrew version), and almost all of it outright conflicts with what we know about the universe/world, now.

As I've mentioned before, Genesis 30 specifically details how Jacob (who would become known as "Israel", the founder of the Hebrew people) was soooo clever that he gained wealth from Laban, whose flocks he tended. Jacob's cleverness would be the wealth-basis by which he became a Patriarch to be remembered. The only problem is that his "cleverness" in the story is based on an idea which people thought was real for thousands of years... up until only a century and a half ago, that is. People could see that species adapted to their environments and, not knowing about genetics and Natural Selection, they thought that the animals themselves adapted to the environment and then passed those adaptations on to their offspring-- thus it was that "clever" Jacob made a deal with Laban to keep the non-white animals, then cut strips in the bark of poplar branches to expose the white underneath and placed those branches in sight of the animals mating at the water troughs, so they'd "adapt to the environment" and produce more spotted offspring.

There's only one problem with the story of Israel's founder... it's completely not how any of that works! It could not be more wrong. It represents the "best guess" of everyone up until Gregor Mendel discovered how genetics works, and Darwin discovered how Natural Selection shapes populations (and technically, their works were not unified into a cohesive "Modern Synthesis" of biology until circa 1942). It's okay that the ancient Hebrews didn't know how science works, or that they didn't draw the kinds of conclusions we can draw nowadays, since our abilities to test, examine, and communicate among peers to confirm our ideas about the world are almost infinitely better than they were 2000-2500 years ago (almost as much better as 200 years ago!), but it's not okay that people in 2015 still think that the Bible is in any way a science textbook instead of a reflection of the myths/origin-stories of one tribe of Bronze/Iron-Age desert tribal warrior/sheepherders.
NASA is a fraud who is funded to make sure the "round earth" hoax never is discovered. All NASA photos use fish eye lenses to give the illusion that the earth is round. Btw...JFK assinated himself. Marinate in that.
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10-11-2015, 03:20 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(10-11-2015 02:36 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 02:32 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Sure we can. Google "WMAP"; I recommend the NASA/JPL website, which has several excellent articles on what it proves and why it is so. Just like anything else in science, you make predictions based on what the data suggests, you set up an experiment that will give you a different result if your prediction is wrong, and then you run the experiment to see if your prediction is falsified or not.

What we definitely know is that the ancient Hebrews were not experts on science, and that much of Genesis represents "best guess" imagination, most of which is based on what the cultures around them thought (which no one questions is dead-wrong; only being Biblical makes people keep holding on to the Hebrew version), and almost all of it outright conflicts with what we know about the universe/world, now.

As I've mentioned before, Genesis 30 specifically details how Jacob (who would become known as "Israel", the founder of the Hebrew people) was soooo clever that he gained wealth from Laban, whose flocks he tended. Jacob's cleverness would be the wealth-basis by which he became a Patriarch to be remembered. The only problem is that his "cleverness" in the story is based on an idea which people thought was real for thousands of years... up until only a century and a half ago, that is. People could see that species adapted to their environments and, not knowing about genetics and Natural Selection, they thought that the animals themselves adapted to the environment and then passed those adaptations on to their offspring-- thus it was that "clever" Jacob made a deal with Laban to keep the non-white animals, then cut strips in the bark of poplar branches to expose the white underneath and placed those branches in sight of the animals mating at the water troughs, so they'd "adapt to the environment" and produce more spotted offspring.

There's only one problem with the story of Israel's founder... it's completely not how any of that works! It could not be more wrong. It represents the "best guess" of everyone up until Gregor Mendel discovered how genetics works, and Darwin discovered how Natural Selection shapes populations (and technically, their works were not unified into a cohesive "Modern Synthesis" of biology until circa 1942). It's okay that the ancient Hebrews didn't know how science works, or that they didn't draw the kinds of conclusions we can draw nowadays, since our abilities to test, examine, and communicate among peers to confirm our ideas about the world are almost infinitely better than they were 2000-2500 years ago (almost as much better as 200 years ago!), but it's not okay that people in 2015 still think that the Bible is in any way a science textbook instead of a reflection of the myths/origin-stories of one tribe of Bronze/Iron-Age desert tribal warrior/sheepherders.
NASA is a fraud who is funded to make sure the "round earth" hoax never is discovered. All NASA photos use fish eye lenses to give the illusion that the earth is round. Btw...JFK assinated himself. Marinate in that.

Weeping

You got jokes Mr Chaplain. You got comment on RS's point - Bible 'science' is rubbish?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-11-2015, 04:19 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(10-11-2015 10:13 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  There's definitely smoke in front of someone, now.

Speaking of which... why am I sober right now?

I was wondering the same thing...throw back a bottle for me too. Wink

**Crickets** -- God
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10-11-2015, 04:47 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(10-11-2015 03:20 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 02:36 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  NASA is a fraud who is funded to make sure the "round earth" hoax never is discovered. All NASA photos use fish eye lenses to give the illusion that the earth is round. Btw...JFK assinated himself. Marinate in that.

Weeping

You got jokes Mr Chaplain. You got comment on RS's point - Bible 'science' is rubbish?

If he's making jokes and being nice and not trying to "educate" us, let's give him a chance.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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10-11-2015, 05:05 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(10-11-2015 06:19 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 06:15 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Now I am no astrophysicist but has anyone here heard of a black hole exploding into a new galaxy?

Forget everything else there; I'm still puzzling the concept of an exploding point of high-gravity space...

You know those times when you barely make it to the toilet and as soon as you sit down shit goes everywhere. That.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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10-11-2015, 08:02 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(10-11-2015 10:46 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 10:21 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Spark that bitch up!

Mannn... They need a dubie smilyfacething. I'm sure there's one somewhere.

Moderation is key.
Peace.

I suddenly understand why your posting style is so incredibly schizophrenic.

I thank you for enlightening me.
Marijuana, in moderation is okay. It helps with a lot of things. I personally don't smoke very often. And I don't do anything else. It's actually an expectorant, or bronchial dilator. This is helpful for COPD. Admittedly, quiting smoking cigarettes would be the best thing. I never said I was perfect. In fact, I generally kinda make it clear that I'm far from it.
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10-11-2015, 08:04 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(10-11-2015 10:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 10:07 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Naturalista,

Duality is true in existence and throughout the bible and other scriptures. But then you go into literal paganism. You cannot follow two directions. It is inefficient and causes backsliding. To even allow perceptions and theories to drift in a wholly natural, or of earth and moon and Sun without understanding and respect and utter suplication under the One Creator GOD is basically inviting in deception. This leads to misdirection and, of course, more deception.

Ascociating the direction of God with desire, especially on a sexual level is a misconseption. This is of Sumerian study.

Towards the end you go off into what the ancient Roman Catholic church founders and ancient pagans where trying to achive at the time of John the Baptist and Jesus of Nazareth. And they are still trying to confuse people in order to neuter them of their potential, obviously, here.

The VAST Majority are decieved, in many different directions. When you consider the actual nature of evil and greed on all levels you can begin to see clearly.

I don't know you, and don't know how long you have thought according to your post, but I hope that you can shake loose the binding chains that keep you from stepping out from behind the veil, the smoke that has been put in front of us all.

No disrespect,
Peace

His views aren't really any crazier than yours. Maybe his are less consistent, but both of you make baseless assertions about things you can't possibly have knowledge of.

A naturalistic view is supported by evidence. A theistic view is not. Drinking Beverage
I'm all about nature. Everything is natural if you think about it. That has little to do with what I was saying about his post.
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10-11-2015, 08:10 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(10-11-2015 10:49 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 10:21 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Spark that bitch up!

Mannn... They need a dubie smilyfacething. I'm sure there's one somewhere.

Moderation is key.
Peace.

If you actually looked for it, you would find that we have one. Smokin

But your mindset doesn't appear to contain either curiosity or fact-checking. Drinking Beverage
"😕mokin:"

That's what that is on my screen. You would know I was on a phone through tapatalk, and that none of y'alls emoticons, or whatever work right through that app if you paid any attention instead of just looking for ways to be an ass.
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10-11-2015, 08:27 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2015 07:08 AM by Chas.)
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
Facepalm

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-11-2015, 08:56 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(10-11-2015 04:47 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 03:20 PM)morondog Wrote:  Weeping

You got jokes Mr Chaplain. You got comment on RS's point - Bible 'science' is rubbish?

If he's making jokes and being nice and not trying to "educate" us, let's give him a chance.

I agree! Frankly, I'll take a humorous, good-natured theist over a grumpy, bad-natured atheist any day of the week.

And that joke was freakin' hilarious. Big Grin

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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