Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
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02-11-2015, 02:54 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 02:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 12:26 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Alla, are you a Christian? What denomination are you?
I see you already have the answer.
(02-11-2015 12:26 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Why do you believe that "we are all gods"? Do you not understand that Psalm 82 is saying that God is above all other gods and that the word "gods" had quotations? This is ironic because you claim that we are all gods by using a scripture that is intended to rebuke anyone or anything that claims to be a god.
There is a difference between gods and Gods. We are gods but we have potential to become Gods like our Heavenly Father. This is why we left our father and came here: to obtain physical bodies and to have all necessary experiences to become like Gods. Like our Heavenly father.
P.S. I disagree with your understanding of Psalm 82. I agree with teachings of true prophets of God and with Spirit.
Well I think it is fine that you don't agree. Which is why you are a Mormon and I am not. I personally never really understood the Mormon concept of numerous Gods. I just figured that if it was true that God was once a man who worshiped "his own God" and that God was once a man who worshiped "his is own God" there would have to be a point where there was an original God who started the whole system in the first place. Why not worship that God and cut out the middleman?
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02-11-2015, 02:55 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 01:53 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I think they reserve Sunday as a day where they only do things as a family. No video games, no going out with friends, no television. They spend Sundays actually doing things as a family. Things like board games, bible study, or just sitting around in the living room talking. Now I understand that this is not something that is restricted solely to Mormons but it shows how important and valuable quality time is to maintain a strong healthy family and it is something that more families would benefit from no mater what their religion is.
LDS also serve God on Sundays. We serve God by serving others. We visit widows, or lonely, or someone who needs help and help them.
We are Jesus's followers. We observe Sabbath the way He observed it.
Jesus did not break the Sabbath but He observed it by serving God. How did He serve God? By serving God's children, by healing them, by visiting them, by helping them.
This is what Sabbath is about - it is about FREEDOM. Freedom from slavery(hard work), freedom from sickness, freedom from suffering.

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02-11-2015, 02:56 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 01:53 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 01:13 PM)julep Wrote:  Elizabeth Smart might disagree with you about some of these traditional values. Mormon purity culture contributed greatly to her responses when she was abducted as a girl.

If by "family values" you mean something like raising kids in a loving, stable environment where they learn to develop skills and self control and to empathize with other humans, what is particularly Mormon about that?
I agree that there are those exceptions. But as a whole, you look at a traditional Mormon family they are more likely to have a stronger and healthier relationships with each other. Why are Mormons stereotyped as having a very close knit family? I think a lot of it comes from their emphasize on quality family time. I think they reserve Sunday as a day where they only do things as a family. No video games, no going out with friends, no television. They spend Sundays actually doing things as a family. Things like board games, bible study, or just sitting around in the living room talking. Now I understand that this is not something that is restricted solely to Mormons but it shows how important and valuable quality time is to maintain a strong healthy family and it is something that more families would benefit from no mater what their religion is.

Exactly the same approach pertains to sacred (in the less religious sense) family time in many, many segments of the culture. Jews, Italians, Irish, Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc., etc. In fact, "quality family time" is a mainstream value recommended by every child expert I have ever read--and my kid is 18, so I have read book after book after book on the subject. I'm trying to think if I have ever heard anyone advocating that families spend less quality (non electronic, non screen) time together… Not that I can recall.
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02-11-2015, 02:57 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 02:55 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 01:53 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I think they reserve Sunday as a day where they only do things as a family. No video games, no going out with friends, no television. They spend Sundays actually doing things as a family. Things like board games, bible study, or just sitting around in the living room talking. Now I understand that this is not something that is restricted solely to Mormons but it shows how important and valuable quality time is to maintain a strong healthy family and it is something that more families would benefit from no mater what their religion is.
LDS also serve God on Sundays. We serve God by serving others. We visit widows, or lonely, or someone who needs help and help them.
We are Jesus's followers. We observe Sabbath the way He observed it.
Jesus did not break the Sabbath but He observed it by serving God. How did He serve God? By serving God's children, by healing them, by visiting them, by helping them.
This is what Sabbath is about - it is about FREEDOM. Freedom from slavery(hard work), freedom from sickness, freedom from suffering.
I agree. I remember the argument that Jesus had with the pharisees when he was accused of violating the law by healing someone on the sabbath.
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02-11-2015, 03:01 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 02:45 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  So why exactly are you on this forum? Not trying to seem rude. I assume you are welcomed here by everyone. Just curious.

Yes, people on this forum are really nice to me. They are all great people.
I am here to share about my faith when I feel like to do so.
I am not here to convince people that there is God. But I do like to talk about my religion to anyone.

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02-11-2015, 03:08 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 01:53 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(02-11-2015 01:13 PM)julep Wrote:  Elizabeth Smart might disagree with you about some of these traditional values. Mormon purity culture contributed greatly to her responses when she was abducted as a girl.

If by "family values" you mean something like raising kids in a loving, stable environment where they learn to develop skills and self control and to empathize with other humans, what is particularly Mormon about that?
I agree that there are those exceptions. But as a whole, you look at a traditional Mormon family they are more likely to have a stronger and healthier relationships with each other. Why are Mormons stereotyped as having a very close knit family? I think a lot of it comes from their emphasize on quality family time. I think they reserve Sunday as a day where they only do things as a family. No video games, no going out with friends, no television. They spend Sundays actually doing things as a family. Things like board games, bible study, or just sitting around in the living room talking. Now I understand that this is not something that is restricted solely to Mormons but it shows how important and valuable quality time is to maintain a strong healthy family and it is something that more families would benefit from no mater what their religion is.

Including no religion at all. Drinking Beverage

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02-11-2015, 03:09 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 02:57 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I remember the argument that Jesus had with the pharisees when he was accused of violating the law by healing someone on the sabbath.

Yes, Jews thought that Jesus breaks this law. Even some Christians assume that Jesus showed that we don't need to observe Sabbath.
But the thing is that Jews had so many laws that were not from God. God didn't say through Moses that to heal sick on Sabbath is forbidden. Or to feed hungry on Sabbath is forbidden. Or to save someone's life on Sabbath is forbidden
Jews forgot that to keep Sabbath is all about serving God and not about silly rules that were made by men and not by God.
Sabbath is all about being free from suffering. Jews forgot this. They forgot that the law for men and not men for the law. Law is to HELP us and TO PROTECT us.

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02-11-2015, 03:11 PM
Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 02:24 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  As a Christian it frustrates me when people (including other Christians ) claim that the bible teaches that the earth is flat. In Isaiah 40:22 it states the earth is round and circular. The original hebrew did not have a word for sphere. They just simply called anything that was round (plates, balls, disks, orbs, ect.) to be circular.

Do you have a reference for that claim? GWG recently posted something that appears to disagree. Saying they had no word for sphere does not sound credible.

Even assuming that is true, should the Hebrew word be translated as sphere everywhere it occurs or only where we now know that it is wrong? How can we tell where they meant round and where they meant sphere? If they had no word for sphere wouldn't you expect them to clarify in the text that the world is circular from every direction like a ball (or whatever object they had that could be used to compare it to)?

Quote:Some may argue that the bible was ahead of its time. Before Columbus went on his voyage many scientists saw the bible as flawed because it did say the earth was round. But then again I am no historian.

That's a common misconception. The Earth being (nearly) spherical was well known before Columbus' time and while many uneducated might not have known that, the "scientists" would have. I've seen claims that Columbus believed the diameter of the Earth to be smaller than it actually is but there was no serious argument that it was flat.

If we can't determine whether they meant circle or sphere then the best we can say is that we don't know what they actually thought since the text is ambiguous. It can't be ahead of its time if it doesn't convey a specific meaning but is being interpreted in light of later knowledge.

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02-11-2015, 03:14 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(02-11-2015 02:54 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Well I think it is fine that you don't agree. Which is why you are a Mormon and I am not.
It is not too late. Big Grin
(02-11-2015 02:54 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I personally never really understood the Mormon concept of numerous Gods. I just figured that if it was true that God was once a man who worshiped "his own God" and that God was once a man who worshiped "his is own God" there would have to be a point where there was an original God who started the whole system in the first place. Why not worship that God and cut out the middleman?
I have to leave this forum now. Real world needs me now and I need real world. Big Grin
I will be back with answer.

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02-11-2015, 03:18 PM
RE: Bible's view of the cosmos: flat earth, moving sun. People actually buy into this?
(01-11-2015 10:30 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(01-11-2015 07:05 PM)Alla Wrote:  Don't worry about it. You don't believe in any god, so you don't need this information. It will be useless.
Wow, that was rude. I'm trying to understand. I guess you don't want to bother. I'll leave you alone, then.
I am very sorry. But isn't it true? Isn't it true that you don't need my answers?
I feel bad. If you still want to ask me questions I will answer them. But if you still want to leave me alone I understand. Once again, I am very, very sorry.
Will you forgive me?

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