Biblical apologism
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24-10-2015, 09:31 AM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2015 09:45 AM by TheInquisition.)
Biblical apologism
Biblical apologism is where the bible, and sometimes God himself addresses the problem of evil, there are three major events in which the bible fails to explain why bad things happen to good people, I will sum them up:

Adam and Eve-It’s our fault, we made a choice and apparently giving a choice makes God blameless even if the consequences are not fully explained to the choice-maker, they are put into a situation to fail and the consequences are way out of proportion to the alleged offense.

The book of Job- Who are you to question god? I note that this is allegedly from the mouth of God himself, and this is the best he can come up with? I also note God is not telling Job the truth why he had to go through what he did even though he was “perfect” in God’s site. Why didn’t God simply tell Job that he was trying to prove a point to Satan and that Job’s life and his children‘s lives are less important than what Satan thinks of Him?

The book of Job presents a conflicting god concept in which God protects and prospers his servants, the “hedge” around Job and then it shows how this god will rip it all away from you for extremely petty reasons that are bereft of any moral compass and he doesn’t owe you any explanation for His depredations.

As with most biblical myths, they are derived from somewhere else, in this case the Babylonian Poem of The Righteous Sufferer inspired the story of Job.

The Babylonian exile- Judah got their ass handed to them, their nation was destroyed because God was pissed off at Manasseh (2 Kings 24:3), Manasseh enjoyed the longest reign of any Judean king and suffered nothing for his alleged sins, but God took his wrath out on his great-grandson Jehoiakim.

It’s sort of like when God sends hurricanes to punish people for allowing gays to marry. It doesn’t really hit anyone involved, it just punishes whoever, collateral damage isn’t really a big deal if you're god, maybe we should give him blueprints for our Predator drone. Rolleyes

So to summarize: It’s your choice/fault, or it’s your great-grandfather’s fault/choice, and if that doesn’t makes sense- shut-up and don’t question god.

This is one of the many reasons why apologists fail at explaining this inconsistent god concept. Anyone can read this stuff and see that the authors really don’t have any answers, they just have poor post-hoc excuses why evil/suffering happens.

You don’t need complex dissertations from scholars to explain this, the bible presents itself fairly clearly to anyone that reads it and it doesn’t provide any answers that are remotely satisfying. As soon as I start hearing about all of these ridiculously complex theodicies (there’s actually a name for their excuse generation) many of us simply flip the off switch.

[Image: off-switch.jpg]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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24-10-2015, 10:08 AM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2015 10:11 AM by Alla.)
RE: Biblical apologism
(24-10-2015 09:31 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Adam and Eve-It’s our fault, we made a choice and apparently giving a choice makes God blameless even if the consequences are not fully explained to the choice-maker, they are put into a situation to fail and the consequences are way out of proportion to the alleged offense.
Where did the Bible say that Adam and Eve failed by partaking the fruit of knowledge of good and evil?
Opposite, according to the Bible they became LIKE GODS. They were not before.
It is a commandment of God: to have a desire to become and to become like God.
The Bible shows to us that Adam and Eve were put (by God) in situation where they can CHOOSE by themselves to become like Gods.
I am grateful to my Heavenly Father for doing this. If Adam and Eve did not choose to become like Gods I wouldn't have this opportunity. God's plan for us to become like Him would fail. But God's plans never fail.
(24-10-2015 09:31 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Why didn’t God simply tell Job that he was trying to prove a point to Satan and that Job’s life and his children‘s lives are less important than what Satan thinks of Him?
Because God was not trying to prove a point. God planned these trials for Job before the foundation of the Earth. God knew Job and chose him before Job's body was formed in the womb. But when Satan talked to God about Job, God decided that it was perfect time to start to test Job. God decided that it was perfect time to do what He planned for Job long time ago.
Each one of us has different blessings and different trials.
Nobody can become like Gods without trials(without knowing evil)
(24-10-2015 09:31 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  The Babylonian exile- Judah got their ass handed to them, their nation was destroyed because God was pissed off at Manasseh (2 Kings 24:3), Manasseh enjoyed the longest reign of any Judean king and suffered nothing for his alleged sins, but God took his wrath out on his great-grandson Jehoiakim.
All people sin even those who have faith in God. But they also repent.
If sinner Manasseh has faith and repents, God would forgive that sinner.
If sinner Jehoiakim does not have faith, does not repent and teaches his people to do evil, God does not forgive.
No repentance - no forgiveness.
In order to repent someone at least has to say: "I am sorry". No "I am sorry" no forgiveness.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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26-10-2015, 08:28 AM
RE: Biblical apologism
I don't even understand why we dignify it with a word like 'apologetics'. They're not apologies. They're excuses. Whenever presented with facts that contradict faith, the facts are excused away. Let's call it what it really is: Excusism. One who practices excusism would be an excusist. Christian excusists. Muslim excusists. Mr. Peanut excusists (looking at you, OB). I see no reason to handle this with kid gloves.

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26-10-2015, 08:47 AM
RE: Biblical apologism
(26-10-2015 08:28 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  I don't even understand why we dignify it with a word like 'apologetics'. They're not apologies. They're excuses. Whenever presented with facts that contradict faith, the facts are excused away. Let's call it what it really is: Excusism. One who practices excusism would be an excusist. Christian excusists. Muslim excusists. Mr. Peanut excusists (looking at you, OB). I see no reason to handle this with kid gloves.

I don't know. In context, I always take the term to be a negative. I understand why apologists don't, so its kind of interesting in that regard (sort of like how proponents and opponents have different views on the term "Obamacare").

I was taken aback the first time I heard the term "atheist apologetics". I'm not even sure what those are.
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26-10-2015, 08:53 AM
RE: Biblical apologism
If I understand it correctly, apologetics comes from the same root word but using a different meaning. Either that or the meanings have drifted. In any case:

Quote:Apologetics (from Greek ἀπολογία, "speaking in defense") is the discipline of defending a position (often religious) through the systematic use of information. Early Christian writers (c. 120–220) who defended their faith against critics and recommended their faith to outsiders were called apologists.

I was confused about the meaning also, but Bart Ehrman explained it in one of his videos. The above definition is from Wikipedia.

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26-10-2015, 09:32 AM
RE: Biblical apologism
(26-10-2015 08:28 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  I don't even understand why we dignify it with a word like 'apologetics'. They're not apologies.

I wish they were; they have a lot to apologize for.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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27-10-2015, 01:39 AM
RE: Biblical apologism
(26-10-2015 09:32 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I wish they were; they have a lot to apologize for.

Taking apologetics as "speaking in defense of" the fact that there are NO science apologists has profound significance. I don't think there even any evolution apologists - certainly none that label themselves as such, despite the intensity of the attacks against it - but in a strict sense evolution ISN'T defended, instead creationism is always demolished. And without apology. Tongue
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