Biblical population vs the killings
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14-09-2014, 02:12 PM
Biblical population vs the killings
I have a question that perhaps someone could answer. I just read a great book called Drunk With Blood by Steve Wells which discusses and lists god's killings in the bible.

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/...bible.html

My question is this: Is there an estimated population of this area of the world and how does it compare with the number of people killed in the bible. For instance, oh lets just pick one shall we Smile, the 42,000 Ephraimites killed for failing the "Shibboleth" test. They couldn't pronounce the word Shibboleth so 42 thousand of them were slaughtered. Here is more details on this lovely episode. http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/...-test.html

Is there an estimation of the Ephraimites population at the time ? I mean, 42 thousand Ephraimites were killed. Could there even be that many Ephraimites living then?

The bible exaggerated or completely made up so much crap, the population was certainly one of them.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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14-09-2014, 02:23 PM
RE: Biblical population vs the killings
(14-09-2014 02:12 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I have a question that perhaps someone could answer. I just read a great book called Drunk With Blood by Steve Wells which discusses and lists god's killings in the bible.

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/...bible.html

My question is this: Is there an estimated population of this area of the world and how does it compare with the number of people killed in the bible. For instance, oh lets just pick one shall we Smile, the 42,000 Ephraimites killed for failing the "Shibboleth" test. They couldn't pronounce the word Shibboleth so 42 thousand of them were slaughtered. Here is more details on this lovely episode. http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/...-test.html

Is there an estimation of the Ephraimites population at the time ? I mean, 42 thousand Ephraimites were killed. Could there even be that many Ephraimites living then?

The bible exaggerated or completely made up so much crap, the population was certainly one of them.

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14-09-2014, 02:35 PM (This post was last modified: 14-09-2014 04:07 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Biblical population vs the killings
The ancient Hebrews had no word in their language that corresponds to our word "history". They had no need for it, (except to keep the royal line in order). Their literature is not what modern humans calls "history". They were trying to transmit what they felt was "important". Factual as we think of it was not one of their values. Reading the literature of ancient cultures, one must understand the values of that culture, and not bring our own to the table. (Of course it IS legitimate to criticize as "factual" since Fundies claim it is ... but that actually is missing the point of the original texts.)

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14-09-2014, 03:49 PM
RE: Biblical population vs the killings
(14-09-2014 02:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The ancient Hebrews had no word in their language that corresponds to our word "history". They had no need for it, (except to keep the royal line in order). Their literature is not what modern humans calls "history". They were trying to transmit what they felt was "important". Factual as we think of it was not one of their values. Reading the literature of ancient cultures, one must understand the values of that culture, and not bring our own to the table. (Of course it IS legitimate to criticize as "factual" since Fundies claim it is ... but that actually is missing the point of the original texts.

I guess what I'm getting at is how are ancient populations arrived at by today's historians, or whoever does stuff like that. I can't find any stats on the population of the Ancient Middle Eastern areas. All I'm finding is a bunch of creationist crap. In reading the numbers of killings in the bible it's obviously exaggerated. There obviously couldn't be that many people populating that region of the world to kill therefore the bible has another problem, which is always fun to point out. I just can't find ancient population statistics to prove it.

I'm just curious about stuff like this ya know.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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14-09-2014, 04:10 PM (This post was last modified: 14-09-2014 04:17 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Biblical population vs the killings
(14-09-2014 03:49 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(14-09-2014 02:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The ancient Hebrews had no word in their language that corresponds to our word "history". They had no need for it, (except to keep the royal line in order). Their literature is not what modern humans calls "history". They were trying to transmit what they felt was "important". Factual as we think of it was not one of their values. Reading the literature of ancient cultures, one must understand the values of that culture, and not bring our own to the table. (Of course it IS legitimate to criticize as "factual" since Fundies claim it is ... but that actually is missing the point of the original texts.

I guess what I'm getting at is how are ancient populations arrived at by today's historians, or whoever does stuff like that. I can't find any stats on the population of the Ancient Middle Eastern areas. All I'm finding is a bunch of creationist crap. In reading the numbers of killings in the bible it's obviously exaggerated. There obviously couldn't be that many people populating that region of the world to kill therefore the bible has another problem, which is always fun to point out. I just can't find ancient population statistics to prove it.

I'm just curious about stuff like this ya know.

So here's a general idea of how it's done. The numbers were obviously greatly exaggerated. Settlements at the time could not support those numbers.
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/jrz3/PopulationHQ.pdf

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14-09-2014, 04:19 PM
RE: Biblical population vs the killings
Archaeologists actually have a system for estimating the population of a given area based on the number of built up hectares to which is applied a population value.

Using such methods - and I may be able to find the formula for you - the calculations have been made that Jerusalem grew to a town of about 10,000 people by the late 7th century when it was destroyed by the Babylonians. This would have been the most that could have been sustained based on the limited water supply of the area.

It slowly grew back to that size until Herod the Great expanded the water supply by the use of aqueducts.

Obviously, earlier population estimates in the bible are simply silly shit.

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14-09-2014, 04:29 PM
RE: Biblical population vs the killings
(14-09-2014 04:10 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(14-09-2014 03:49 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I guess what I'm getting at is how are ancient populations arrived at by today's historians, or whoever does stuff like that. I can't find any stats on the population of the Ancient Middle Eastern areas. All I'm finding is a bunch of creationist crap. In reading the numbers of killings in the bible it's obviously exaggerated. There obviously couldn't be that many people populating that region of the world to kill therefore the bible has another problem, which is always fun to point out. I just can't find ancient population statistics to prove it.

I'm just curious about stuff like this ya know.

So here's a general idea of how it's done. The numbers were obviously greatly exaggerated. Settlements at the time could not support those numbers.
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/jrz3/PopulationHQ.pdf

Hummm. I'm not sure if I should thank you for the link or not 'cause now I've got some reading to do.

Well, of course the killings were exaggerated. Snicker, snicker. There is no god that went around smiting people left and right. Jesus christ, what am I thinking. There were feuds and wars and tribal conflicts though and those were greatly embellished over the centuries.

Anyway, thanks!

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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14-09-2014, 06:30 PM
RE: Biblical population vs the killings
In 2007's Quest for the Historical Israel, Archaeologist Amihai Mazar wrote:

Quote:Population size is estimated by multiplying the known built-up area of the sites by a certain coefficient of people per built-up hectare. Using a coefficient of 250 people per built-up hectare.

* A hectare being equal to 10,000 square meters.


Israel Finkelstein wrote in a paper on the subject:

Quote:Several decades later, during the Lachish III phase in the history of Judah, the socio-economic character of the Southern Kingdom was utterlyrevolutionized. Jerusalem grew to be the largest city in the entire country,covering an area of c. 60 hectares (Broshi 1974; Avigad 1983: 54-60;Reich and Shukron 2003; Geva 2003), with an estimated population of upto 10–12,000 inhabitants.

*The Lachish III period ended around 700 BCE.

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