Biblical prophecies: proof for the existence of a God?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-08-2014, 07:12 PM (This post was last modified: 17-08-2014 08:58 PM by f stop.)
RE: Biblical prophecies: proof for the existence of a God?
Quote:
Factors Determining the Convincing Value of a Prophecy
  1. the detail it includes
  2. the likelihood of the prophet's being able to guess that the events described would happen
  3. the likelihood that the people who knew of the prophecy would be able to fulfill it themselves
  4. whether the events that fulfilled the prophecy are known outside the Bible
  5. whether it can be established that the prophecy was in fact written before the events happened

#1. The detail it includes.

That's rather weak. Something can have a lot of detail and still be bullshit. Let's substitute "It must not be vague. It must be clearly stated, not subject to equivocation and interpretation as to exactly what it means."

Consider three examples of so called prophecies that fail this test.
  • "The greater part of the battle shall be against Hister..."
  • "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your descendents and her descendents. It shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."
  • "He shall step forward and strike the ten, and the ten shall fall, but he shall not attain the three hundred."
The first is a so-called prophecy by Nostradamus supposedly predicting Adolph Hitler. Drop the "s" and put an "l" after the "t". But Hister is a name for the Danube river. The prophecy simply says that there will be a battleground that borders the Danube. Or does it? It's impossible to tell. It's vague. It's not clearly stated, it's subject to equivocation and interpretation. Why should your interpretation trump mine?

"I will put enmity ... " Do you recognize this one? If the subject of this thread were not prophecy would you even recognize it as a prophecy? If so, what does it prophecy? Would you know that if someone had not told you?

"He shall step forward ... " Do you recognize that one? What does it mean?

#2. The likelihood of the prophet's being able to guess that the events described would happen.

This one's meaningless. Without exception (prove me wrong) Biblical prophecies are so vague that the prophet does not have to guess. He simply dazzles with bullshit. To say he's guessing is to give him too much credit.

#3. The likelihood that the people who knew of the prophecy would be able to fulfill it themselves.

In other words, is the prophecy self-fulfilling? My favorite in this category is the founding of modern day Israel. It's self-fulfilling. After WWII the entire world is on a guilt trip about the holocaust and the persecution of the Jews. Zionists used the prophecy as a rallying cry to establish a new Jewish state.

You need to ask yourself whether there are other examples of a people returning to an ancient homeland. E.g., was the Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire during WW1 and the founding of modern day Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc. a fulfillment of an prophecy in the Koran?

#4. Whether the events that fulfilled the prophecy are known outside the Bible.

Usually not. For example, most Biblical prophecies are about Christ but , outside the Bible, there's not a shred of evidence that he even existed.

5. Whether it can be established that the prophecy was in fact written before the events happened.

That's the biggie, and I think the answer is "no". The prophecies were back fitted to events that had already happened. Or events were interpreted to fit the prophecies. Or the fulfillment never actually happened.

I challenge anyone to come up with a single instance of a Biblical prophecy where we can unequivocally say that the prophecy was made before it was fulfilled, where we can unequivocally agree on what the prophecy means, and that the fulfillment actually happened.

Sapere aude
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 8 users Like f stop's post
17-08-2014, 08:50 PM
RE: Biblical prophecies: proof for the existence of a God?
Quote:These nations will destroy Tyre, and the rubble of the city will be thrown into the sea, leaving bare rock where fishing nets will be stretched out to dry (Ezek 26:4-5. 12, 14). The passage also foretells that there will come a time when the city of Tyre is no more (Ezek 26:14, 21).


[Image: tyreleb.jpg]

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 8 users Like Minimalist's post
17-08-2014, 10:59 PM
RE: Biblical prophecies: proof for the existence of a God?
@OP

No.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2014, 11:40 PM
RE: Biblical prophecies: proof for the existence of a God?
The Oracle of Delphi famously told the Athenians to stand behind a wooden wall and so defeat the Persians.

Themistokles, interpreting the oracle to mean he should fight at sea with the Athenian navy, defeated the Persians at Salamis and thus saved Greece from Persian occupation.

Will the OP now sacrifice a goat to Apollo as his prophecy is far more impressive than the so-called bible bullshit.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2014, 11:53 PM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2014 12:17 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Biblical prophecies: proof for the existence of a God?
(17-08-2014 11:40 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  The Oracle of Delphi famously told the Athenians to stand behind a wooden wall and so defeat the Persians.

Themistokles, interpreting the oracle to mean he should fight at sea with the Athenian navy, defeated the Persians at Salamis and thus saved Greece from Persian occupation.

Will the OP now sacrifice a goat to Apollo as his prophecy is far more impressive than the so-called bible bullshit.

Also, 300: Rise of an Empire (which is a fictionalized retelling of this story, as opposed to the original's telling of the Battle of Thermopylae) is badass; and Eva Green steals the movie.

[Image: 300thumb.jpg]

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2014, 11:46 AM
RE: Biblical prophecies: proof for the existence of a God?
300 was one of the worst fucking movies ever made. It was so bad that it caused a parody http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meet_the_Spartans

Quote:The film opens with a Spartan elder inspecting an ugly, talking baby (an ogre from Shrek the Third); it is abandoned to die for its deformity. A second baby, who is Vietnamese, is adopted by Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. Baby Leonidas is then inspected, having a six-pack, biceps and beard from birth. He is accepted as a Spartan and prepared for kinghood through his childhood training, from fighting his grandmother to enduring torture (a la Casino Royale). Leonidas (Sean Maguire) is then cast out into the wild, and survives the harsh winter and a gangsta penguin (Happy Feet). Returning a king for his inauguration wearing a penguin skin hat, Leonidas sees Margo (Carmen Electra) erotically dancing and asks her to marry him, to which she responds by giving him the combination to her chastity belt.

300 was so bad all it was missing was a guy and two robots in the corner riffing on it.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-08-2014, 04:49 AM
RE: Biblical prophecies: proof for the existence of a God?
(17-08-2014 04:22 AM)dylan Wrote:  Some of the content in there is outstanding, especially pages 105-106.

Now, those prophecies are very specific and raised a lot of questions in my head.

The only explanation other than "it was God telling us the future" is that we are dealing with post-factum prophecies (prophecies that were written after the events that they predict).
You forgot another option!

This prophecies (some) can be true from God, but what about the rest of the Bible????

We as Muslims believe that the Bible was originally from God, but was altered (many times) by the church, people, mistakes, missing texts, translations, etc.

So the current Bible(s) is far from being from God at all.

and this can be proven easily with the amount of scientific errors, contradictions, non-sense in the Bible
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-08-2014, 04:55 AM
RE: Biblical prophecies: proof for the existence of a God?
(19-08-2014 04:49 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(17-08-2014 04:22 AM)dylan Wrote:  Some of the content in there is outstanding, especially pages 105-106.

Now, those prophecies are very specific and raised a lot of questions in my head.

The only explanation other than "it was God telling us the future" is that we are dealing with post-factum prophecies (prophecies that were written after the events that they predict).
You forgot another option!

This prophecies (some) can be true from God, but what about the rest of the Bible????

We as Muslims believe that the Bible was originally from God, but was altered (many times) by the church, people, mistakes, missing texts, translations, etc.

So the current Bible(s) is far from being from God at all.

and this can be proven easily with the amount of scientific errors, contradictions, non-sense in the Bible
I look forward to you doing it because then you will also automatically disprove that other nonsensical book of horror fairy tales called Koran.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-08-2014, 05:04 AM
RE: Biblical prophecies: proof for the existence of a God?
(19-08-2014 04:55 AM)DunkleSeele Wrote:  I look forward to you doing it because then you will also automatically disprove that other nonsensical book of horror fairy tales called Koran.
You can try to find a single clear "Logical" contradiction in Quran!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-08-2014, 05:10 AM
RE: Biblical prophecies: proof for the existence of a God?
(19-08-2014 05:04 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 04:55 AM)DunkleSeele Wrote:  I look forward to you doing it because then you will also automatically disprove that other nonsensical book of horror fairy tales called Koran.
You can try to find a single clear "Logical" contradiction in Quran!
Umm no buddy, you're the one going around and saying you can "prove" this or that. Come on, show us your hand.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: