Bicycling!
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06-05-2017, 05:53 PM
RE: Bicycling!
(06-05-2017 05:32 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Bicycling? Bahahahaha. I have a cute little basket on my bike. I toodle down to the store and pick up milk and bread and a few other things and plunk it in my basket.....home I go...giggity-gig. Now that's how you use a bicycle.Tongue

Here's two articles about basketpacking:

https://maxthecyclist.wordpress.com/2016...for-nerds/

http://www.whileoutriding.com/bike-talk/...rnia-bound

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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06-05-2017, 05:55 PM
RE: Bicycling!
(06-05-2017 05:41 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 05:32 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Bicycling? Bahahahaha. I have a cute little basket on my bike. I toodle down to the store and pick up milk and bread and a few other things and plunk it in my basket.....home I go...giggity-gig. Now that's how you use a bicycle.Tongue

Me too. Don't laugh though. Basketpacking is the new thing. It's bikepacking for nerds. A front rack with a Wald basket and you can hold a lot of stuff. I found an old wire basket from a refrigerator and I zip tie that thing to my rear rack and ride the 8 miles to town. It's a blast. Nice 16 mile round trip. Takes me 35 minutes one way if the wind isn't blowing (which it usually is). It could carry two six packs of beer too. Wink

I think if I lived in a city, I wouldn't even have a car. I watch the bikers in Denver and they can really get around town fast, faster than sitting in the traffic there. I'd have to get used to riding in traffic with cars though.

You guys are making me picture this scene from the Wizard of Oz Tongue Wink

[Image: giphy.gif]

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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06-05-2017, 05:59 PM
RE: Bicycling!
(06-05-2017 05:50 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 05:28 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Check out Revelate designs. Their sweetroll handlebar bag is awesome. It holds a lot of stuff, even the medium size. I carry my sleeping back and Huba Huba two person tent in a 15 liter dry back strapped to the front of the handlebars. I carry my Thermarest Neoair pad in my seat bag along with extra cloths to wear in camp and to sleep in. My tools and other heavy things go in the frame bag that fits in the triangle. My stove and food go in a small backpack and I carry my water on the front forks and under the down tube. I can carry 150 ounces of water in addition to my bladder in the pack which holds half a gallon. Oh, and my water filter goes in the pack as well and that's about all I carry.

I just looked up the sweetroll, looks easy to attach. Thumbsup I like the "Dial Your Ride" function on their site--gives great ideas to pack your bike to suit your own individual needs.

Yeah it seems to be. I'm going to get a couple. I like the roll closure on both ends. I use the front end loader from Oveja Negra and it is just like a harness with straps to hold a dry bag. The nice thing is you can unstrap the dry bag and take it to the tent and just leave the harness attached to the bike. There's another bag maker in Flagstaff, AZ called Angry Panda and I'll probably buy some of his stuff too.

I'm working on putting together a whole set of extra gear so I can take people who've never been and they can use my gear to see if they like it. I want to get a lot of people in my local area doing this so we can do some group outings.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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06-05-2017, 06:02 PM
RE: Bicycling!
(06-05-2017 05:55 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 05:41 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Me too. Don't laugh though. Basketpacking is the new thing. It's bikepacking for nerds. A front rack with a Wald basket and you can hold a lot of stuff. I found an old wire basket from a refrigerator and I zip tie that thing to my rear rack and ride the 8 miles to town. It's a blast. Nice 16 mile round trip. Takes me 35 minutes one way if the wind isn't blowing (which it usually is). It could carry two six packs of beer too. Wink

I think if I lived in a city, I wouldn't even have a car. I watch the bikers in Denver and they can really get around town fast, faster than sitting in the traffic there. I'd have to get used to riding in traffic with cars though.

You guys are making me picture this scene from the Wizard of Oz Tongue Wink

[Image: giphy.gif]

LOL. I have a little tiny dog. She's a mix of Pomeranian and miniature dachshund. I got my basket all zip tied up and put a blanket in there and tried to take her with me but she would not have any of it. She was shaking like a leaf.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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06-05-2017, 06:10 PM
RE: Bicycling!
(06-05-2017 04:44 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 03:38 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Bicycling is one of my passions, but unlike most in this thread, I strongly prefer road riding, for three reasons: (1) I like riding the bike, but I don't like cleaning it, and you can't ride offroad without getting the bike dirty; (2) Riding on trails is too much work -- riding on pavement is much more efficient; (3) When I get away from roads and civilization, I want to do so completely. I want to go slowly and without mechanical help, and as quietly as possible, and that means hiking -- another one of my passions.

I have a Cannondale hybrid bike that I use for commuting, and a very expensive, very high-end Serotta Ottrott road bike that I use for recreational riding on the weekends. I have put thousands of miles on this bike, including a 162-mile day (also very hilly). I prefer hilly terrain to flat (I like the challenge of climbing the hills, and the exhilaration of descending, and the views from the hilltops are great), and fortunately, I live in southwest Wisconsin, where there are lots of hills (but no mountains).

Back in 2008, I did a 17-day tour of Colorado with Timberline Adventures. Other than the fact that we had to ride on some busy roads (including I-70 for 4 miles!) because Colorado doesn't have the kind of secondary road system that Wisconsin does, that was a fantastic experience. Rocky Mountain National Park is one of my favorite places on earth, and riding through it over Trail Ridge Road was the bomb! I also liked the stretch between Steamboat Springs and Glenwood Springs, which included some of the best scenery I've ever seen.

The 17-day tour of Colorado sounds amazing! How did you like going with Timberline Adventures as opposed to creating your own itinerary?

There were pros and cons:

Con #1: It was expensive -- about $5000 total for the trip -- but that included all meals and lodgings (and we stayed in nice hotels and ate in nice restaurants), plus sag service.

Con #2: You're tied to their schedule -- not only where you're going to ride each day, but when (if you want the benefits of group riding and sag service, you have to leave when the group leaves, and that was usually pretty early), and when you're going to eat, etc.

Pro #1: As mentioned above, we stayed in nice hotels and ate in nice restaurants, and they would stop and help you if you had a problem, and give you a ride if the problem was bad enough. One of the hassles of bicycle touring on your own is finding a place to stay each night (whether that means hotel or camping), or reserving 17 nights lodging ahead of time (in 17 different hotels). I probably could have saved some money doing that myself, but not having to do it was worth the extra cost. Also, if you're touring on your own, you're, well, on your own if things go bad (mechanical breakdowns or really bad weather). I've experienced that a few times on other tours, and it was nice not having to worry about it.

Pro #2: This one is huge -- they carried all your stuff for you, which meant that I could ride my nice Serotta Ottrott bike (not at all suitable for loaded touring) and not have to lug all my stuff on a slow clunky loaded touring bike. I've done the loaded touring thing, and it has its own rewards, but it's really nice to just ride a nice bike through beautiful country and leave all the logistical stuff to someone else.

The tour itself was awesome. We did a counterclockwise circuit around the western half of the state (the mountainous part), starting in Boulder and finishing in Idaho Springs. Along the way, we crossed more mountain passes than I can count, and crossed the continental divide a half dozen times or so. Great scenery every day, and we were lucky with the weather, too -- only a little bit of rain here and there. It was one of the best vacations I've ever had.

A downside -- and this is common with many western states -- was that we had to ride on relatively busy roads a lot of the time -- occasionally on two-lane highways with little or no shoulder. On one of those highways, one of our riders was hit and killed by an SUV (driven by a 14-year-old!), which put a damper on the rest of the tour, and caused several people to drop out. But none of this is Timberline's fault. It's just part of road riding in the mountain west. Sometimes busy two-lane highways are the only roads there are. We could never have gotten to the San Juan Mountains -- possibly the most beautiful part of the state -- without riding on those kinds of roads. Despite this, I would do a tour like this again with no hesitation.
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06-05-2017, 06:27 PM
RE: Bicycling!
(06-05-2017 06:10 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 04:44 PM)jennybee Wrote:  The 17-day tour of Colorado sounds amazing! How did you like going with Timberline Adventures as opposed to creating your own itinerary?

There were pros and cons:

Con #1: It was expensive -- about $5000 total for the trip -- but that included all meals and lodgings (and we stayed in nice hotels and ate in nice restaurants), plus sag service.

Con #2: You're tied to their schedule -- not only where you're going to ride each day, but when (if you want the benefits of group riding and sag service, you have to leave when the group leaves, and that was usually pretty early), and when you're going to eat, etc.

Pro #1: As mentioned above, we stayed in nice hotels and ate in nice restaurants, and they would stop and help you if you had a problem, and give you a ride if the problem was bad enough. One of the hassles of bicycle touring on your own is finding a place to stay each night (whether that means hotel or camping), or reserving 17 nights lodging ahead of time (in 17 different hotels). I probably could have saved some money doing that myself, but not having to do it was worth the extra cost. Also, if you're touring on your own, you're, well, on your own if things go bad (mechanical breakdowns or really bad weather). I've experienced that a few times on other tours, and it was nice not having to worry about it.

Pro #2: This one is huge -- they carried all your stuff for you, which meant that I could ride my nice Serotta Ottrott bike (not at all suitable for loaded touring) and not have to lug all my stuff on a slow clunky loaded touring bike. I've done the loaded touring thing, and it has its own rewards, but it's really nice to just ride a nice bike through beautiful country and leave all the logistical stuff to someone else.

The tour itself was awesome. We did a counterclockwise circuit around the western half of the state (the mountainous part), starting in Boulder and finishing in Idaho Springs. Along the way, we crossed more mountain passes than I can count, and crossed the continental divide a half dozen times or so. Great scenery every day, and we were lucky with the weather, too -- only a little bit of rain here and there. It was one of the best vacations I've ever had.

A downside -- and this is common with many western states -- was that we had to ride on relatively busy roads a lot of the time -- occasionally on two-lane highways with little or no shoulder. On one of those highways, one of our riders was hit and killed by an SUV (driven by a 14-year-old!), which put a damper on the rest of the tour, and caused several people to drop out. But none of this is Timberline's fault. It's just part of road riding in the mountain west. Sometimes busy two-lane highways are the only roads there are. We could never have gotten to the San Juan Mountains -- possibly the most beautiful part of the state -- without riding on those kinds of roads. Despite this, I would do a tour like this again with no hesitation.

I've always thought about going with an adventuring group for hiking and backpacking, except I kinda like doing my own thing Tongue I don't like having to go when they tell you it's time to go if I want to stay at a particular spot longer (although, I know that's part of what you pay them for Wink ) But I definitely think there are benefits to going with a group--mainly in the planning, you just book it and leave the leg work to them. Thumbsup

I'm so sorry about that rider in your group Sad

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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06-05-2017, 06:40 PM
RE: Bicycling!
(06-05-2017 06:27 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 06:10 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  There were pros and cons:

Con #1: It was expensive -- about $5000 total for the trip -- but that included all meals and lodgings (and we stayed in nice hotels and ate in nice restaurants), plus sag service.

Con #2: You're tied to their schedule -- not only where you're going to ride each day, but when (if you want the benefits of group riding and sag service, you have to leave when the group leaves, and that was usually pretty early), and when you're going to eat, etc.

Pro #1: As mentioned above, we stayed in nice hotels and ate in nice restaurants, and they would stop and help you if you had a problem, and give you a ride if the problem was bad enough. One of the hassles of bicycle touring on your own is finding a place to stay each night (whether that means hotel or camping), or reserving 17 nights lodging ahead of time (in 17 different hotels). I probably could have saved some money doing that myself, but not having to do it was worth the extra cost. Also, if you're touring on your own, you're, well, on your own if things go bad (mechanical breakdowns or really bad weather). I've experienced that a few times on other tours, and it was nice not having to worry about it.

Pro #2: This one is huge -- they carried all your stuff for you, which meant that I could ride my nice Serotta Ottrott bike (not at all suitable for loaded touring) and not have to lug all my stuff on a slow clunky loaded touring bike. I've done the loaded touring thing, and it has its own rewards, but it's really nice to just ride a nice bike through beautiful country and leave all the logistical stuff to someone else.

The tour itself was awesome. We did a counterclockwise circuit around the western half of the state (the mountainous part), starting in Boulder and finishing in Idaho Springs. Along the way, we crossed more mountain passes than I can count, and crossed the continental divide a half dozen times or so. Great scenery every day, and we were lucky with the weather, too -- only a little bit of rain here and there. It was one of the best vacations I've ever had.

A downside -- and this is common with many western states -- was that we had to ride on relatively busy roads a lot of the time -- occasionally on two-lane highways with little or no shoulder. On one of those highways, one of our riders was hit and killed by an SUV (driven by a 14-year-old!), which put a damper on the rest of the tour, and caused several people to drop out. But none of this is Timberline's fault. It's just part of road riding in the mountain west. Sometimes busy two-lane highways are the only roads there are. We could never have gotten to the San Juan Mountains -- possibly the most beautiful part of the state -- without riding on those kinds of roads. Despite this, I would do a tour like this again with no hesitation.

I've always thought about going with an adventuring group for hiking and backpacking, except I kinda like doing my own thing Tongue I don't like having to go when they tell you it's time to go if I want to stay at a particular spot longer (although, I know that's part of what you pay them for Wink ) But I definitely think there are benefits to going with a group--mainly in the planning, you just book it and leave the leg work to them. Thumbsup

I'm so sorry about that rider in your group Sad

I did one other Timberline trip a few years earlier, and that was a Grand Canyon hiking trip. A big bonus there was being able to hike down into the canyon, stay at Phantom Ranch, and then hike out the next day. Unless you're extremely fit (and extremely ambitious), you can't hike in and out in the same day, and Phantom Ranch is booked years in advance (mostly by and for mule riders). This was the only way for me to do that hike without lugging a heavy pack and camping (and you have to reserve way ahead of time even for camping).

That's one big advantage of group tours -- they can sometimes get you into places that you just couldn't manage on your own (or would have to plan and reserve years in advance to do it on your own).
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06-05-2017, 06:41 PM
RE: Bicycling!
(06-05-2017 03:38 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Bicycling is one of my passions, but unlike most in this thread, I strongly prefer road riding, for three reasons: (1) I like riding the bike, but I don't like cleaning it, and you can't ride offroad without getting the bike dirty; (2) Riding on trails is too much work -- riding on pavement is much more efficient; (3) When I get away from roads and civilization, I want to do so completely. I want to go slowly and without mechanical help, and as quietly as possible, and that means hiking -- another one of my passions.

I have a Cannondale hybrid bike that I use for commuting, and a very expensive, very high-end Serotta Ottrott road bike that I use for recreational riding on the weekends. I have put thousands of miles on this bike, including a 162-mile day (also very hilly). I prefer hilly terrain to flat (I like the challenge of climbing the hills, and the exhilaration of descending, and the views from the hilltops are great), and fortunately, I live in southwest Wisconsin, where there are lots of hills (but no mountains).

Back in 2008, I did a 17-day tour of Colorado with Timberline Adventures. Other than the fact that we had to ride on some busy roads (including I-70 for 4 miles!) because Colorado doesn't have the kind of secondary road system that Wisconsin does, that was a fantastic experience. Rocky Mountain National Park is one of my favorite places on earth, and riding through it over Trail Ridge Road was the bomb! I also liked the stretch between Steamboat Springs and Glenwood Springs, which included some of the best scenery I've ever seen.

Hey, do you remember how many feet of climbing was on that tour. I bet it was a lot. You are so right about the secondary road situation here except for maybe the northern front range from Golden up to Fort Collins. Ah, so many places to go and so little time.

I can definitely see the attraction of a road bike. They're so light and fast. That's why I'm looking at the Cross Check or the Specialized Awol. Not ready to go full skinny tires yet. Also I'm looking hard at the Salsa Fargo. I've heard a lot of great things about that bike. The new model can fit plus size tires too. The Tour Devide Rout goes through the western part of our valley and I see a lot of the Tour Deviders when I'm out riding. A lot of them are riding the Fargo and everyone I've talked to loved them.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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06-05-2017, 06:57 PM
RE: Bicycling!
I had a bit of trouble getting my wife on board with me getting a new fat bike. She said it was really expensive. I said, is it more expensive than diabetes or heart disease or high blood pressure? That did the trick. Only she's now taken it over and loves it so much we're going to get her one too.

On the plus side I was able to ride all winter and keep what conditioning I have so that now I'm in better shape than I was in the fall. And let me tell you, riding a fat bike in the snow up a steep trail is the hardest workout I've ever had. Hands down it beats cross country skiing.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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06-05-2017, 06:58 PM
RE: Bicycling!
(06-05-2017 06:41 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 03:38 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Bicycling is one of my passions, but unlike most in this thread, I strongly prefer road riding, for three reasons: (1) I like riding the bike, but I don't like cleaning it, and you can't ride offroad without getting the bike dirty; (2) Riding on trails is too much work -- riding on pavement is much more efficient; (3) When I get away from roads and civilization, I want to do so completely. I want to go slowly and without mechanical help, and as quietly as possible, and that means hiking -- another one of my passions.

I have a Cannondale hybrid bike that I use for commuting, and a very expensive, very high-end Serotta Ottrott road bike that I use for recreational riding on the weekends. I have put thousands of miles on this bike, including a 162-mile day (also very hilly). I prefer hilly terrain to flat (I like the challenge of climbing the hills, and the exhilaration of descending, and the views from the hilltops are great), and fortunately, I live in southwest Wisconsin, where there are lots of hills (but no mountains).

Back in 2008, I did a 17-day tour of Colorado with Timberline Adventures. Other than the fact that we had to ride on some busy roads (including I-70 for 4 miles!) because Colorado doesn't have the kind of secondary road system that Wisconsin does, that was a fantastic experience. Rocky Mountain National Park is one of my favorite places on earth, and riding through it over Trail Ridge Road was the bomb! I also liked the stretch between Steamboat Springs and Glenwood Springs, which included some of the best scenery I've ever seen.

Hey, do you remember how many feet of climbing was on that tour. I bet it was a lot. You are so right about the secondary road situation here except for maybe the northern front range from Golden up to Fort Collins. Ah, so many places to go and so little time.

I can definitely see the attraction of a road bike. They're so light and fast. That's why I'm looking at the Cross Check or the Specialized Awol. Not ready to go full skinny tires yet. Also I'm looking hard at the Salsa Fargo. I've heard a lot of great things about that bike. The new model can fit plus size tires too. The Tour Devide Rout goes through the western part of our valley and I see a lot of the Tour Deviders when I'm out riding. A lot of them are riding the Fargo and everyone I've talked to loved them.

I don't remember the total amount of climbing, but it was 1000-2000 feet even on the easy days, and there were some days where it was 5000-6000 feet. Strangely enough, I've done rides here in Wisconsin where there was more "climbing per mile" -- but a different kind of climbing. Trail Ridge Road was about 5000 feet of climbing, but spread out over 20 miles or so. We were climbing for hours, but at a relatively easy grade. The longest climbs around here are only a few miles, with less than 1000 total feet of climbing, but we have a lot of short steep climbs -- maybe only 200-300 feet high, but the grades can be close to 20%.

Skinny tires are a lot faster on pavement, but also more susceptible to flats, and the ride is harsher. You have to find a sweet spot between the extremes of speed and comfort. Same thing with saddles. The big plush soft ones are more comfortable, but a lot of your potential pedaling energy gets absorbed by the saddle instead of going to the pedals, so they are relatively inefficient. I use a pretty stiff saddle. You just wear padded shorts, and you get used to it.

I can see the attraction of mountain bikes and offroad riding, too -- you can get to some really cool places that you can't get to on a road bike (and that it would take days to get to by hiking). I used to do some rock climbing, too, and it had that same advantage. You could get to great places that were just not accessible by any other means (unless you're a bird).Tongue
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