Poll: How will this ultimately work out?
The Fed will be able to continue buying up the government's with newly printed money indefinitely.
The Fed will have to stop at some point, but the US will be able to handle the interest payments.
It will lead to either a currency collapse if the Fed keeps printing money like this, or a default if they don't.
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Big surprise. The Republicans caved in.
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21-10-2013, 08:25 AM
RE: Big surprise. The Republicans caved in.
(21-10-2013 08:12 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(21-10-2013 12:32 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Prior to our federal reserve inflation was controlled by the government and so it was used for political purposes. You can see graphs and inflation would fluctuate anywhere between negative a couple percent to 20% in one year. Obviously this is not good. So the federal reserve (or we call it the Reserve Bank of New Zealand) was created with the purpose of controlling inflation. Since it's establishment inflation has fluctuated between 1 and 2 percent, I think 3 percent a couple years, which is a normal amount of inflation.
The point being don't be so quick to outright dismiss it.

This chart shows the historic cumulative effect of inflation in New Zealand. chart. Like everywhere else in the world, there was no inflation until 1971, and it's been soaring ever since (except in Switzerland).

Remember, the whole world was on a gold standard from 1948 to 1971. During that time, there was no inflation, because the quantity of gold only increases 1-2%/year. BUT, government's HATE the gold standard because that means when they want money they have to get the people to agree to give them the money in the form of taxation. They LOVE fiat currencies, because all they have to do is hit the 'print' button and they can take as much money as they want from the people, and the people don't even know it. Remember, in 1971, Nixon effectively stole the whole world's supply of money, because before that time, US dollars were simply claim checks for money (gold), and the world shipped the US their gold in exchange for claim checks. In 1971 Nixon said "We're going to keep all your gold, but lucky you, you get to keep the claim checks." The only reason the rest of the world didn't complain about getting robbed like this is that they all loved having a fiat currency.

So, if NZ really wanted to curb inflation they would have done what Switzerland did--keep the gold standard. And this is much better for the people because it rewards saving and investing, whereas a fiat currency punishes them, and rewards spending and borrowing.

Now, it's true that IF you're going to have a fiat currency, a semi-independent central bank, which is prohibited from directly paying the government's bills, shows more restraint. I'm not familiar with the system in NZ, but I imagine that originally the same politicians that passed the budget were also the ones with their fingers on the 'print' button, so, for every new spending project they wanted, it was easiest to take the money they needed by just cranking up the press. An independent central bank with a charter to keep inflation under control generally does a BETTER job. However, they're still politically appointed, so they still have to ultimately give the government what it wants.

Also, don't forget that the reason why the "official" inflation numbers are so low is that the governments keep changing how they calculate inflation in order to get lower numbers and convince the people that they're doing a good job. Here in the US, if you apply the ORIGINAL formula from the 80's (price change of a basket of goods), the REAL inflation rate is around 7%. But, the former Fed Chairman, Greenspan, told Congress the government could, basically, raid senior citizens retirement accounts by reducing the official number, since social security and entitlement programs are tied to the official inflation number. Congress, of course, LOVED the idea. And now, they do all sorts of hedonic adjustments, and they cherry pick what's in the inflation figures (health care, for example, only accounts for 1% of the inflation figure, even though it's a huge actual expense, and they weigh the cost of newspapers heavier than the cost of health care). From what I can tell, all other countries picked up on this trick and now do the same thing. So it's possible you're not really having low inflation--just a low figure.

Careful with your quotes there Franky. I don't want people to start thinking I'm some grumpy kiwi. Big Grin

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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21-10-2013, 11:12 AM
RE: Big surprise. The Republicans caved in.
@Girlyman,

Quote:We live in the People's Republic of Maryland where taking care of our own ain't up for debate, it's just a given. ... Somehow we are amongst the best at taking care of our own while still having the highest income per capita of any State. Taking care of your own don't hurt your bottom line, it helps it. So suck terrapin balls teaturds

I did some fact checking. True, Maryland has the per capita income, followed by Virginia. But they also have the highest percent of federal employees by a long shot, and Federal employees are paid twice what the average American is. And that's not counting the indirect Federal employees paid through contractors (like Edward Snowden), which afaik is much higher than the direct Federal employees.

Since those salaries all come out of Federal income taxes, which are paid by all the 50 states, it's not fair, imo, to credit Maryland and Virginia. They just happen to be adjacent to Washington D.C., and unless you know of a way to move Nevada to the Atlantic Ocean, the fact is that other states simply do not have the option of copying Maryland's model, since it's dependent on getting the rest of the states to pay for your labor force.

Also, it's not really “Maryland taking care of it's own”, it's more like the other 48 states taking care of Maryland and Virginia, imo. Smile
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21-10-2013, 11:46 AM (This post was last modified: 21-10-2013 11:54 AM by frankksj.)
RE: Big surprise. The Republicans caved in.
@GirlyMan,

One other thing to remember. As a federal employee, your salary is deducted from my paycheck at gunpoint. As a small business owner, for me to collect the same $150k salary you do, I have to generate millions of dollars for the nation's GDP, create dozens or hundreds of new jobs to reduce the nation's unemployment rate, and make a product that people think makes their life better. My salary is a win-win for everyone.

You expressed resentment for entrepreneurs making over $1m/year (you said tax us 90%). But, if I'm able to some day make $1m/year salary, there will be no losers. It won't get deducted from anybody's paycheck. And I'll only get there if I significantly improve my contribution to the nation's GDP and employment. Thus, for me to get there, it's a big win-win for everyone. There are no losers.

A free market is NOT a zero sum gain, where one gains at the expense of others, like government jobs. So, I feel that I have the right to resent if YOU (federal employees) all get a 10x raise, because that means the deduction in my paycheck is 10x greater, and I won't be able to food anymore. But why should you resent if I am able to increase my salary by 10x, since it's just a win-win for everyone, yourself included? You're shooting yourself in the foot if you try to stop me from earning $1m, because if I do, I'll paying a shitload of taxes so the government can pay you more. Thus, I think you should ask yourself... When you get your panties in a bunch over CEO's making so much, what is driving that emotion? Compassion for the poor? Or jealousy of the rich?

The answer is obvious when you ask liberals to compare the Swedish vs. Swiss system. They all bash the Swiss and praise the Swedish. But it's a matter of record that the Swiss have done a better job of improving the lot of the poor than the Swedes. The Swiss are the only people that have eliminated poverty, so the poorest make at least half what the rest do. And they have no homeless, no hungry, no poor. And they've done it with less than half the size of government as Sweden, and without ever threatening anybody with jail time for refusing to pay taxes. In fact, rich residents can even negotiate a fixed tax amount and not even declare their income at all. So, if liberals really cared for the poor, why do they HATE the Swiss system, since it's the best system for the poor? Why do they favor the Swedish system which costs as much and accomplishes less? The reason, imo, is that the Swiss system doesn't strive for equality, nor does it punish the rich. The rich can get as rich as they want. And the Swiss do it because it also raises the lot of the poor. The Swedes, however, are more concerned with equality, even though it results in bringing everybody down, including the poor. So, imo, liberals who praise Sweden and condemn Switzerland are NOT driven by compassion for the poor, but rather by jealousy for the rich.
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21-10-2013, 08:37 PM (This post was last modified: 21-10-2013 08:54 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Big surprise. The Republicans caved in.
(21-10-2013 11:46 AM)frankksj Wrote:  @GirlyMan,

One other thing to remember. As a federal employee, your salary is deducted from my paycheck at gunpoint. As a small business owner, for me to collect the same $150k salary you do, I have to generate millions of dollars for the nation's GDP, create dozens or hundreds of new jobs to reduce the nation's unemployment rate, and make a product that people think makes their life better. My salary is a win-win for everyone.

I save your ass millions of dollar a fucking year from the goddam military industrial complex scavengers looking to suck off the government teat. That's kinda like my primary function. Girly earns his keep. The biggest part of your "private" sector is hooked on the government tit. So fuck off, bitch. Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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21-10-2013, 09:00 PM
RE: Big surprise. The Republicans caved in.
(21-10-2013 08:37 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(21-10-2013 11:46 AM)frankksj Wrote:  @GirlyMan,

One other thing to remember. As a federal employee, your salary is deducted from my paycheck at gunpoint. As a small business owner, for me to collect the same $150k salary you do, I have to generate millions of dollars for the nation's GDP, create dozens or hundreds of new jobs to reduce the nation's unemployment rate, and make a product that people think makes their life better. My salary is a win-win for everyone.

I save your ass millions of dollar a fucking year from the goddam military industrial complex scavengers looking to suck off the government teat. That's kinda like my primary function. Girly earns his keep. So fuck off, bitch. Tongue

Don't take it personally. I know nothing about you, and so this is a general statement, not a personal attack.

Q: Do you acknowledge that a government taxpayer-funded employees salary is ultimately deducted from everybody's paychecks?

Q: Do you agree that if all the federal employees got a 10x raise, to pay for it would require substantially raising the tax rates, so that everybody's paychecks would get smaller?

Q: On the other hand, as a small business owner, let's say I invent some new widget and sell a zillion of them in Japan, and thus my salary goes up 10x, is this deducted from anybody else's paycheck? If so, whose and by what means? Sure, the customers are paying for it, but they're doing so voluntarily because they feel my widget is worth at least as much as what it costs, and makes their life that much better. So the customers are "winners" just as much as I am.

Q: If you accept those points, do you accept that, unless they're providing a service the private sector needs to function, adding government workers or giving them raises is a zero-sum game with winners (the gov't workers) and losers (the taxpayers) because it's merely transferring more money from private sector workers to government workers, however adding private sector workers in a free-market system, particularly by innovating and creating new industries, is NOT a zero-sum game because everybody benefits?
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21-10-2013, 09:13 PM
RE: Big surprise. The Republicans caved in.
(21-10-2013 09:00 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Don't take it personally.

I ain't. I was just dicking with you. I like you. Big Grin

(21-10-2013 09:00 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Q: Do you acknowledge that a government taxpayer-funded employees salary is ultimately deducted from everybody's paychecks?

Where the fuck else you think it's gonna come from?

(21-10-2013 09:00 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Q: Do you agree that if all the federal employees got a 10x raise, to pay for it would require substantially raising the tax rates, so that everybody's paychecks would get smaller?

That's an absurd question. We ain't even had a cost of living increase in 3 years.

(21-10-2013 09:00 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Q: On the other hand, as a small business owner, let's say I invent some new widget and sell a zillion of them in Japan, and thus my salary goes up 10x, ...

I doubt you'll find the Japanese tax code any less unpleasant than the USA.

(21-10-2013 09:00 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Q: If you accept those points, do you accept that adding government workers or giving them raises is a zero-sum game ...

If you don't give a shit about the military industrial bottom-feeders ripping your naive sorry ass off, then sure get rid of Girly. I'll still get my pension and you'll still be robbed blind. Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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