Billy Graham Dead
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21-02-2018, 01:35 PM
RE: Billy Graham Dead
(21-02-2018 01:23 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(21-02-2018 01:09 PM)BikerDude Wrote:  Oh give me a break!
People can make up their own minds.
He believed in what he preached.
And he refused to involve himself in Washington politics. He said his job was the preach the gospels.
Is that were we are now?
Fundementalist Atheism?
If people live a good life and don't hurt people and fight for civil rights I don't have to agree with them about their religious beliefs.
How about MLK?
He led a lot of people to religion. And he was friends with Billy Graham.
Is he a piece of shit as well?

Wait didn’t billy graham go to the Whitehouse a fuck ton of times? He didn’t involve himself outwardly on politics but he certainly helped to drive an agenda behind the scenes. He was actually the “spiritual advisor” to quite a few presidents. You can’t really make the claim he wasn’t involved in politics.

My grandma dragged me once to hear him speak. I think that was when I began seriously questioning my belief in god. That being said, he did seem to be a nice man. I also think, unlike some of them (Pat Robertson, et al) he actually did believe what he said.

Well in his own words.
"I'm trying to stay out of it and just keep preaching the Gospel, because there's nothing coming out of Washington or any of those places that are going to save the world or transform men and women. It's Christ," he said."

"I'm just going to preach the Gospel and am not going to get off on all these hot-button issues," he said. "If I get on these other subjects, it divides the audience on an issue that is not the issue I'm promoting. I'm just promoting the Gospel."

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21-02-2018, 01:53 PM
RE: Billy Graham Dead
(21-02-2018 01:35 PM)BikerDude Wrote:  
(21-02-2018 01:23 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Wait didn’t billy graham go to the Whitehouse a fuck ton of times? He didn’t involve himself outwardly on politics but he certainly helped to drive an agenda behind the scenes. He was actually the “spiritual advisor” to quite a few presidents. You can’t really make the claim he wasn’t involved in politics.

My grandma dragged me once to hear him speak. I think that was when I began seriously questioning my belief in god. That being said, he did seem to be a nice man. I also think, unlike some of them (Pat Robertson, et al) he actually did believe what he said.

Well in his own words.
"I'm trying to stay out of it and just keep preaching the Gospel, because there's nothing coming out of Washington or any of those places that are going to save the world or transform men and women. It's Christ," he said."

"I'm just going to preach the Gospel and am not going to get off on all these hot-button issues," he said. "If I get on these other subjects, it divides the audience on an issue that is not the issue I'm promoting. I'm just promoting the Gospel."

We'll never know what was really said behind closed doors. He met every president since Truman and would frequently call and speak to them. He was dismayed when Jimmy Carter refused to have official prayer meetings in the Whitehouse (he felt it was a big mistake but said he respected Carter). Carter to his credit didn't want to seem to give preferential treatment to one religion over another. That said, I do suspect he did a better job than most at trying to appear that he wasn't there to push an agenda...

But make no mistake his agenda was god.


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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21-02-2018, 01:56 PM (This post was last modified: 21-02-2018 02:01 PM by BikerDude.)
RE: Billy Graham Dead
(21-02-2018 01:53 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(21-02-2018 01:35 PM)BikerDude Wrote:  Well in his own words.
"I'm trying to stay out of it and just keep preaching the Gospel, because there's nothing coming out of Washington or any of those places that are going to save the world or transform men and women. It's Christ," he said."

"I'm just going to preach the Gospel and am not going to get off on all these hot-button issues," he said. "If I get on these other subjects, it divides the audience on an issue that is not the issue I'm promoting. I'm just promoting the Gospel."

We'll never know what was really said behind closed doors. He met every president since Truman and would frequently call and speak to them. He was dismayed when Jimmy Carter refused to have official prayer meetings in the Whitehouse (he felt it was a big mistake but said he respected Carter). Carter to his credit didn't want to seem to give preferential treatment to one religion or another.

I used to respect Carter.
Not so much over time
The stuff that Chris Hitchens has said contributes but actually I watched the Frontline last night about Iran and Saudi Arabia.
There was Carter standing shoulder to shoulder with the Shah and showering him with praise. That's bad.
The Shah was a mass murderer and the CIA were completely complicit.
But I'm off topic.




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21-02-2018, 02:04 PM
RE: Billy Graham Dead
(21-02-2018 01:56 PM)BikerDude Wrote:  
(21-02-2018 01:53 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  We'll never know what was really said behind closed doors. He met every president since Truman and would frequently call and speak to them. He was dismayed when Jimmy Carter refused to have official prayer meetings in the Whitehouse (he felt it was a big mistake but said he respected Carter). Carter to his credit didn't want to seem to give preferential treatment to one religion or another.

I used to respect Carter.
Not so much over time
The stuff that Chris Hitchens has said contributes but actually I watched the Frontline last night about Iran and Saudi Arabia.
There was Carter standing shoulder to shoulder with the Shah and showering him with praise. That's bad.
The Shah was a mass murderer and the CIA were completely complicit.



Oh, I'm not saying that Carter didn't have issues (we're delving off topic here), but I am giving him a bit of credit for not wanting to seem that his religious belief was more important (in a country that values freedom of religion or at least did at that time).


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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21-02-2018, 03:16 PM
RE: Billy Graham Dead
(21-02-2018 07:47 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  Actually Billy Graham is not so bad.
He was the guy who payed the bail for MLK when he was jailed.
He was very different from guys like Falwell.

http://www.thekingcenter.org/archive/theme/2179

He was also the guy who supported Nixon in his belief that something needed to be done about "Jewish control of the media".

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21-02-2018, 03:53 PM
RE: Billy Graham Dead
(21-02-2018 03:16 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(21-02-2018 07:47 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  Actually Billy Graham is not so bad.
He was the guy who payed the bail for MLK when he was jailed.
He was very different from guys like Falwell.

http://www.thekingcenter.org/archive/theme/2179

He was also the guy who supported Nixon in his belief that something needed to be done about "Jewish control of the media".

Yeah, I was just reading about that. I knew he was pretty tight with Nixon. As much as Graham claimed to just be interested in "following the gospel" and not interested in furthering an agenda, but often the two can't be so easily sorted out. He held "prayer groups" while SCOTUS was deliberating on Roe V Wade. And you can bet your bottom dollar he wasn't on the side of reproductive rights. He was actually very political in a very seemingly non-political way.


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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21-02-2018, 04:05 PM
RE: Billy Graham Dead
It seems many politicians offered more condolences to Graham's family than what we heard about any other recent deaths.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli...358292002/
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21-02-2018, 04:09 PM
RE: Billy Graham Dead
He was always "dead" to me. When I was a Catholic, he was the wrong kind of Christian. Then, when I was no longer Catholic, he was just wrong. He influenced a lot of people religiously so I'm glad that has come to an end. He was probably a nice enough guy though otherwise. He never struck me as the evangelist opportunist type (like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, etc.), but then I also never really paid much attention to him.

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21-02-2018, 04:14 PM
RE: Billy Graham Dead
(21-02-2018 01:09 PM)BikerDude Wrote:  Oh give me a break!
People can make up their own minds.
He believed in what he preached.
And he refused to involve himself in Washington politics. He said his job was the preach the gospels.
Is that were we are now?
Fundementalist Atheism?
If people live a good life and don't hurt people and fight for civil rights I don't have to agree with them about their religious beliefs.
How about MLK?
He led a lot of people to religion. And he was friends with Billy Graham.
Is he a piece of shit as well?

People can do both harm and good. Pointing out the good doesn't remove the harms. People can make up their own minds, but often don't; especially when they're children and then carry their beliefs into adulthood. It's called indoctrination. Perhaps you've heard of it. Consider

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21-02-2018, 04:17 PM
RE: Billy Graham Dead
(21-02-2018 04:05 PM)pablo Wrote:  It seems many politicians offered more condolences to Graham's family than what we heard about any other recent deaths.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli...358292002/

#Lipservicematters

PPP's comment did make giggle though, "other religions" really? The more I'm reading and the time I took to actually listen some of the whitehouse tapes (thanks Watergate), he was a total antisemite. I'm thinking Judaism was a 'religion' back in the 70s Laugh out load

I don't know what other "religions" PPP is referring to. Graham thought anything other than Christianity was a false teaching. It wasn't until Romney ran for president (against [the more evil] Obama), that mormonism was removed from his "cult" list.

Stayed out of politics my ass.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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