Bin Laden's Death
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28-10-2012, 01:32 PM
RE: Bin Laden's Death
(28-10-2012 12:51 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(28-10-2012 10:13 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  How did they handle those two tragedies? I know that Americans were upset about it, too, but it quickly devolved into a debate over whether Breivik was a "true" Christian.

Did it? Wow, this is beyond sick. My two cents - he totally was/is - willing to kill for his religion.

Well, they didn't turn it into a witch hunt, they didn't demonise the piece of shit (I, on the other hand am not below thatWink), they didn't focus on revenge, they didn't throw him into a Guantanamo type of jail and they reiterated that cultural diversity is one of the main ideals of their society.

He was sentenced to 21 years (no death penalty there, as if I needed another reason to respect them), which can be extended if it's deemed that he still poses a threat to society.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19354906

And yes, he is a monster and worse than scum, but ultimately how we treat our enemies reflects on us and can harm as much as it can harm them. Yes, there are people who do not deserve to live, but I don't want to be the one to throw the switch that kills them or be a part of the society that rejoices in their death.

Maybe it's only a gut feeling and thus not a good case for an argument, but to me it feels different to take out one of the heads of a world-wide organization that has declared war on the West and one crazy lunatic who went off on a bunch of kids. One case is a form of war in our present age and one is a sick crime.

That's how I see it, but what do I know? I'd rather go finish eating my nachos and watching football. Big Grin

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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28-10-2012, 01:39 PM
RE: Bin Laden's Death
(28-10-2012 03:14 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  America seems to have a monopoly on drinking/masturbating with the blood of those who oppose us.

In light of all this, I can't help but think to myself "No fucking wonder they want us all dead."

Statements like that are not welcome on this forum...

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28-10-2012, 01:52 PM
RE: Bin Laden's Death
(28-10-2012 01:32 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Maybe it's only a gut feeling and thus not a good case for an argument, but to me it feels different to take out one of the heads of a world-wide organization that has declared war on the West and one crazy lunatic who went off on a bunch of kids. One case is a form of war in our present age and one is a sick crime.

I kinda did put a disclaimer that it's not the same thing. What it is, however, is a reflection on how two societies handled those who had committed a vicious attack against them.

I know this must be a sensitive subject and as a non-American I probably do not have the right to an opinion (at least this is what a lot of Americans would tell me), but everything I've ever seen after 9/11 has been about revenge, killing as many muslims as possible (hey, there were lunatics attacking Sikhs just because they looked 'muslim' to them) and showing the world that America cannot be messed with.

And am I missing something, or is a crazy lunatic (and he wasn't declared insane, btw) killing a bunch of kids somehow better than Bin Laden? Do we only go by numbers?

I'm totally with starcrash on the whole Bin Laden death. My problem is not with killing him but with the glorification of his execution (and it was exactly this, an execution) and the sick and continued pride in it.

With the risk of sounding completely naive, this is a quote from one of the greatest children's (and not just children's) books ever written (quite fittingly, it's Swedish):
"Jonatan: You know I can't kill another man.
Orvar: Oh Jonatan, if everyone thought like you, Evil would have prevailed a long time ago.
Skorpan: If everyone thought like Jonatan there wouldn't be no evil."

So yeah, fighting fire with fire really ain't the answer...

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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28-10-2012, 01:55 PM
RE: Bin Laden's Death
Watch this wand while I slide this rabbit under the hat.

When it comes to foreign policy the west is like a mafia, sometimes when your own people do things that might cause the family trouble they become your enemy and you have to make them sleep with the fishes.

Bin Laden like Saddam Hussein was our bitch, we slobbed on his knob, he slobbed on ours, we helped him and his fighters fight against the infidel commies, Bin Laden sent his fighters to help NATO in Yugoslavia break up the country into Balkan States. Then, bin ladens britches got too big so he started talking shit about another western puppet, Saudi Arabia, for bin laden it was all downhill for him after that. So the former girlfriend turned into a bitch, He becomes wanted by the U.S. only after he is tied to the attacks against other U.S. puppets (LATE 90's). The puppet was getting out of control, so he had to be flushed.

Bin Ladens assassination and the creaming of american panties over it represents a larger war. The U.S. has been increasing it's drone strikes under the pretense that the president can say "kill those people" and then the military carries out the orders, no trial, no legal pretense whatsoever. This kind of murder is exactly what an empire does. Bin Ladens life and death represents americas lust for blood and power.
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28-10-2012, 03:33 PM
RE: Bin Laden's Death
(28-10-2012 10:12 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  I don't think it's true that we are "celebrating in the streets"

The day of the announcement, hundreds of people were in fact crowded in the streets cheering and celebrating. It was widely covered on the news.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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28-10-2012, 03:34 PM
RE: Bin Laden's Death
(28-10-2012 01:39 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(28-10-2012 03:14 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  America seems to have a monopoly on drinking/masturbating with the blood of those who oppose us.

In light of all this, I can't help but think to myself "No fucking wonder they want us all dead."

Statements like that are not welcome on this forum...

Trust me

You'll find that I care little about when and if my statements are "welcome" Wink

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
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28-10-2012, 03:35 PM
RE: Bin Laden's Death
(28-10-2012 09:10 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I am amazed and disappointed by your post.

None of that is what I see as the top annoyance. To me, it is how it's become the ultimate fall back talking point for President Obama in a sad way.

Really everything since the attacks have been that way it seems.

You must take into account the fact that I have no interest in politics whatsoever. Thus, I have no reason to mention Obama or his political tactics.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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28-10-2012, 04:12 PM
RE: Bin Laden's Death
(28-10-2012 01:52 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(28-10-2012 01:32 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Maybe it's only a gut feeling and thus not a good case for an argument, but to me it feels different to take out one of the heads of a world-wide organization that has declared war on the West and one crazy lunatic who went off on a bunch of kids. One case is a form of war in our present age and one is a sick crime.

I kinda did put a disclaimer that it's not the same thing. What it is, however, is a reflection on how two societies handled those who had committed a vicious attack against them.

I know this must be a sensitive subject and as a non-American I probably do not have the right to an opinion (at least this is what a lot of Americans would tell me), but everything I've ever seen after 9/11 has been about revenge, killing as many muslims as possible (hey, there were lunatics attacking Sikhs just because they looked 'muslim' to them) and showing the world that America cannot be messed with.

And am I missing something, or is a crazy lunatic (and he wasn't declared insane, btw) killing a bunch of kids somehow better than Bin Laden? Do we only go by numbers?

I'm totally with starcrash on the whole Bin Laden death. My problem is not with killing him but with the glorification of his execution (and it was exactly this, an execution) and the sick and continued pride in it.

With the risk of sounding completely naive, this is a quote from one of the greatest children's (and not just children's) books ever written (quite fittingly, it's Swedish):
"Jonatan: You know I can't kill another man.
Orvar: Oh Jonatan, if everyone thought like you, Evil would have prevailed a long time ago.
Skorpan: If everyone thought like Jonatan there wouldn't be no evil."

So yeah, fighting fire with fire really ain't the answer...

The response to 9-11 wasn't really a response, it was more of a push through of long planned foreign policy. The plan to invade Iraq was made during the clinton administration when the sanctions were the first step in weakening the country for a future attack. Afghanistan was in the plans also, before 9-11. The drug trade is very profitable, and it is a major center for trade and it is geographically a good position to be in, especially in case of an attack on Iran.
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28-10-2012, 04:20 PM
RE: Bin Laden's Death
(28-10-2012 04:12 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(28-10-2012 01:52 PM)Vera Wrote:  I kinda did put a disclaimer that it's not the same thing. What it is, however, is a reflection on how two societies handled those who had committed a vicious attack against them.

I know this must be a sensitive subject and as a non-American I probably do not have the right to an opinion (at least this is what a lot of Americans would tell me), but everything I've ever seen after 9/11 has been about revenge, killing as many muslims as possible (hey, there were lunatics attacking Sikhs just because they looked 'muslim' to them) and showing the world that America cannot be messed with.

And am I missing something, or is a crazy lunatic (and he wasn't declared insane, btw) killing a bunch of kids somehow better than Bin Laden? Do we only go by numbers?

I'm totally with starcrash on the whole Bin Laden death. My problem is not with killing him but with the glorification of his execution (and it was exactly this, an execution) and the sick and continued pride in it.

With the risk of sounding completely naive, this is a quote from one of the greatest children's (and not just children's) books ever written (quite fittingly, it's Swedish):
"Jonatan: You know I can't kill another man.
Orvar: Oh Jonatan, if everyone thought like you, Evil would have prevailed a long time ago.
Skorpan: If everyone thought like Jonatan there wouldn't be no evil."

So yeah, fighting fire with fire really ain't the answer...

The response to 9-11 wasn't really a response, it was more of a push through of long planned foreign policy. The plan to invade Iraq was made during the clinton administration when the sanctions were the first step in weakening the country for a future attack. Afghanistan was in the plans also, before 9-11. The drug trade is very profitable, and it is a major center for trade and it is geographically a good position to be in, especially in case of an attack on Iran.

Your evidence for these claims is ... ?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-10-2012, 06:16 PM
RE: Bin Laden's Death
My celebration went as far as to listening to this for about an hour, and then I was done.




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