Biocentrism
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31-05-2011, 07:14 PM
Biocentrism
Biocentrism.

Kinda surprised I can't find much of anything on it anywhere here.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
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Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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31-05-2011, 07:21 PM
 
RE: Biocentrism
Oh yeah. I was reading that article a few days ago. I can't remember if it was because of a topic posted here or not...

Interesting though though. I guess from a perspective sense I can see how someone thought it might make sense...

But we might as well say that we live in VR or the Matrix.

If it were to be true, well. I guess we would be the collective god of the universe.
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31-05-2011, 07:29 PM
RE: Biocentrism
(31-05-2011 07:21 PM)Cube Wrote:  Interesting though though. I guess from a perspective sense I can see how someone thought it might make sense...

If it's interesting, that's when I typically take the trouble to check out the credibility of those proposing it (as well as those opposing it - make sure to check out the mixed reviews at the bottom). It's not as if this is coming from some gomer like me after a 12-pack and a couple blunts.

(31-05-2011 07:21 PM)Cube Wrote:  But we might as well say that we live in VR or the Matrix.

I think it'd be more like we is the matrix, but whatever works for you.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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04-06-2011, 09:13 PM
RE: Biocentrism
bump

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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06-06-2011, 12:04 PM
RE: Biocentrism
Quoting from the link:

Quote:The behavior of subatomic particles, indeed all particles and objects, is inextricably linked to the presence of an observer. Without the presence of a conscious observer, they at best exist in an undetermined state of probability waves.
This is a typical display of ignorance about QM. The collapse of the wave function is caused by any interaction between systems, and consciousness is not at all required. A photon or a cosmic particle can cause the collapse of the wave function of a subatomic particle, which is why for example, quantum entanglement is so difficult to maintain, because earth is constantly bombarded by countless particles that will eventually interact with one of the entangled particles.

Quote:The structure of the universe is explainable only through biocentrism. The universe is fine-tuned for life, which makes perfect sense as life creates the universe, not the other way around. The "universe" is simply the complete spatio-temporal logic of the self.
This one is plain silly. The universe is fine tuned for life? Really? That must be why the VAST majority of the universe is interstellar space at temperatures close to absolute zero, completely inhospitable to any form of life, then.

Some of the other arguments can be easily reduced to the Kantian view of noumenal vs phenomenal. This is a weak argument. Saying that nothing can exist outside conscious perception just because all we know is what we perceive is a baseless jump to conclusion, a non sequitur. Biology explains how our sensory perception evolved to help the organisms interact with the world around them. If there was no world around them to interact with, why would they develop any sensory perception? Unless of course we want to throw away the entire field of evolutionary biology, together with pretty much every other branch of science. Considering how successful science has been, I am reluctant to discard it in favor of an unfalsifiable hypothesis.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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06-06-2011, 08:57 PM
RE: Biocentrism
(06-06-2011 12:04 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  This is a typical display of ignorance about QM. The collapse of the wave function is caused by any interaction between systems, and consciousness is not at all required.

Apparently, there are those that differ.

(06-06-2011 12:04 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  That must be why the VAST majority of the universe is interstellar space at temperatures close to absolute zero, completely inhospitable to any form of life, then.

Well, at least so far as we've observed anyways.

(06-06-2011 12:04 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  Considering how successful science has been, I am reluctant to discard it in favor of an unfalsifiable hypothesis.

Discard it?!? No fucking way! Goddam, it's all we got. But I am certainly willing to entertain unfalsifiable hypotheses. I'm not sure what that even means post-Godel.

P.S. And thanks for showing up Bueller. I knew you were out there. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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07-06-2011, 10:45 AM
RE: Biocentrism
(06-06-2011 08:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-06-2011 12:04 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  This is a typical display of ignorance about QM. The collapse of the wave function is caused by any interaction between systems, and consciousness is not at all required.

Apparently, there are those that differ.
Are these people scientists?

Quote:
(06-06-2011 12:04 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  That must be why the VAST majority of the universe is interstellar space at temperatures close to absolute zero, completely inhospitable to any form of life, then.

Well, at least so far as we've observed anyways.
Of course, and I would expect theories to be formulated on what we know, not on what may be out there but has never been observed.

(06-06-2011 12:04 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  Considering how successful science has been, I am reluctant to discard it in favor of an unfalsifiable hypothesis.

Quote:P.S. And thanks for showing up Bueller. I knew you were out there. Wink
??

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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07-06-2011, 05:22 PM
RE: Biocentrism
(06-06-2011 12:04 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  This is a typical display of ignorance about QM. The collapse of the wave function is caused by any interaction between systems, and consciousness is not at all required.
(06-06-2011 08:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Apparently, there are those that differ.
(06-06-2011 12:04 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  Are these people scientists?

I dunno, you tell me: John Archibald Wheeler

(06-06-2011 08:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  P.S. And thanks for showing up Bueller. I knew you were out there. Wink
(06-06-2011 12:04 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  ??

Goddam I'm old.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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07-06-2011, 05:48 PM
RE: Biocentrism
(07-06-2011 05:22 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-06-2011 12:04 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  This is a typical display of ignorance about QM. The collapse of the wave function is caused by any interaction between systems, and consciousness is not at all required.
(06-06-2011 08:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Apparently, there are those that differ.
(06-06-2011 12:04 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  Are these people scientists?

I dunno, you tell me: John Archibald Wheeler
Wheeler believes that the only way to collapse the wave function is to have a CONSCIOUS observer? Really? Reference please? Big Grin

Actually, since QM works at scales not visible to human eyes, the "observer" is ALWAYS an inanimate object, be a photographic plate behind the double slit, or a detection system of some kind. None of those systems are conscious. In fact, you can leave the room during the experiment, or leave the building and come back the following day, if you like, and things will still work as expected.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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07-06-2011, 06:32 PM
RE: Biocentrism
(07-06-2011 05:48 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  Wheeler believes that the only way to collapse the wave function is to have a CONSCIOUS observer? Really? Reference please? Big Grin

Goddam dude, I gave you the reference. Didn't you read the link?

"Wheeler has speculated that reality is created by observers in the universe. 'How does something arise from nothing?', he asks about the existence of space and time (Princeton Physics News, 2006). He also coined the term 'Participatory Anthropic Principle' (PAP), a version of a Strong Anthropic Principle. From a transcript of a radio interview on 'The anthropic universe'[7]:

Wheeler: We are participators in bringing into being not only the near and here but the far away and long ago. We are in this sense, participators in bringing about something of the universe in the distant past and if we have one explanation for what's happening in the distant past why should we need more?
Martin Redfern: Many don't agree with John Wheeler, but if he's right then we and presumably other conscious observers throughout the universe, are the creators — or at least the minds that make the universe manifest."

Shit, guess I better give you this one too since I'm starting to think I can't trust you to read for yourself: Anthropic Priniciple

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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