Black Female Atheist vs Scared Theist Professor
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14-11-2012, 05:31 PM
RE: Black Female Atheist vs Scared Theist Professor
(14-11-2012 05:28 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Guys,
I think we are missing the point.

Don't bother attacking the religious arguments. It's all been done before.

The point here is about professionalism.

PeiPei,
Ask him to relate everything back to Islam.
Ask where in Islam, in the Quran, in the Hadith etc. those arguments are put forward.

Ask him what critiques, whether from within Islamic scholarly debate or from other sources, have been postulated i.e. when, where and by whom those arguments have been refuted.

He is there to teach you. He should have all the answers.

If not, he is a fraud and should be exposed and / or the irrelevant subject matter in his lesson plans should be expurgated.
That too.

But, my post also points out flaws in his theology. Fight fire with fire.

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14-11-2012, 05:37 PM
RE: Black Female Atheist vs Scared Theist Professor
(14-11-2012 05:31 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(14-11-2012 05:28 PM)DLJ Wrote:  The point here is about professionalism.

He is there to teach you. He should have all the answers.

If not, he is a fraud and should be exposed and / or the irrelevant subject matter in his lesson plans should be expurgated.
That too.

But, my post also points out flaws in his theology. Fight fire with fire.


I disagree.

Cut off the supply of oxygen!

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14-11-2012, 07:19 PM
RE: Black Female Atheist vs Scared Theist Professor
(14-11-2012 05:28 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Guys,
I think we are missing the point.

Don't bother attacking the religious arguments. It's all been done before.

The point here is about professionalism.

PeiPei,
Ask him to relate everything back to Islam.
Ask where in Islam, in the Quran, in the Hadith etc. those arguments are put forward.

Ask him what critiques, whether from within Islamic scholarly debate or from other sources, have been postulated i.e. when, where and by whom those arguments have been refuted.

He is there to teach you. He should have all the answers.

If not, he is a fraud and should be exposed and / or the irrelevant subject matter in his lesson plans should be expurgated.
If it was me in that same class the thing foremost in my mind would be "I paid for this?" Or is this a free class....somehow? You did mention university. It isn't Liberty University, is it?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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14-11-2012, 08:38 PM
RE: Black Female Atheist vs Scared Theist Professor
Personally, I would write an email to the dean of the university and express your concern that he's not teaching without bias. He's pushing religion on his class and for the atheists, that could mean worse grades for not "understanding" the "true answer." I first learned the Aquinas arguments in my Philosophy of Religion class and the first thing we learned after the arguments were the rebuttals, not the Christian response.

If you make a big enough fuss about it, they may even give you a free A+. Religion makes people's buttholes pucker and they tend to avoid rather than confront.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

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14-11-2012, 10:24 PM
RE: Black Female Atheist vs Scared Theist Professor
You're in a class to learn about crazy ideas that people believe. I really see no need to debate. Just take notes and pass the tests.

You already know it's bullshit.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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14-11-2012, 11:00 PM
RE: Black Female Atheist vs Scared Theist Professor
(14-11-2012 10:24 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  You're in a class to learn about crazy ideas that people believe. I really see no need to debate. Just take notes and pass the tests.

You already know it's bullshit.

A course like this *could* be very interesting if he was actually teaching about the history etc. What he *is* doing is proselytizing and getting paid for it. He must think he's in heaven. Dodgy

I'm all for giving the sod a bit of grief.
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15-11-2012, 03:21 PM
RE: Black Female Atheist vs Scared Theist Professor
(14-11-2012 10:24 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  You're in a class to learn about crazy ideas that people believe. I really see no need to debate. Just take notes and pass the tests.

You already know it's bullshit.

You know what, you're right.

That's actually the exact thing that went through my mind when my advisor was helping me register for classes.

I was like, "You know what, just think of it as an easy A. I'll show up, get the points for attendance, do the work and just get it over with. I just have to pass, no one said I actually had to believe what this guy tells me."

But at the same time. . . .in my own hedonistic way, I'm like, "It's probably been a while since this guy had any of his religious views challenged, especially by an atheist." While I refuse to force my views on other people, at the same time I know I don't have to be ashamed or apologetic about thinking for myself. Dammit, I just want people to THINK! Because judging by my professors attitude, he thinks all of his students buy every single thing that comes out of his face, and the only reason I occassionally try to debate with him is that I just want to kind of get 'their wheels turning.'

I mean, there are 3 or 4 Muslims in our class (and he even treats THEM like lab rats, but that's another story) and he's asked them questions about Islam that even THEY can't answer. It's really sad; there are times I wanted to just turn around and ask them "Have you even THOUGHT about the fact that some of these rituals and superstitions don't make any sense? Do you only believe in them because someone told you to?"


The good news is that I know I'm passing the class and I only have about 3 weeks left with this blowhard and then I'll never have to hear his annoying condescending voice ever again. Drinking Beverage
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15-11-2012, 03:43 PM (This post was last modified: 15-11-2012 03:54 PM by Chas.)
RE: Black Female Atheist vs Scared Theist Professor
(15-11-2012 03:21 PM)PeiPei22 Wrote:  
(14-11-2012 10:24 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  You're in a class to learn about crazy ideas that people believe. I really see no need to debate. Just take notes and pass the tests.

You already know it's bullshit.

You know what, you're right.

That's actually the exact thing that went through my mind when my advisor was helping me register for classes.

I was like, "You know what, just think of it as an easy A. I'll show up, get the points for attendance, do the work and just get it over with. I just have to pass, no one said I actually had to believe what this guy tells me."

But at the same time. . . .in my own hedonistic way, I'm like, "It's probably been a while since this guy had any of his religious views challenged, especially by an atheist." While I refuse to force my views on other people, at the same time I know I don't have to be ashamed or apologetic about thinking for myself. Dammit, I just want people to THINK! Because judging by my professors attitude, he thinks all of his students buy every single thing that comes out of his face, and the only reason I occassionally try to debate with him is that I just want to kind of get 'their wheels turning.'

I mean, there are 3 or 4 Muslims in our class (and he even treats THEM like lab rats, but that's another story) and he's asked them questions about Islam that even THEY can't answer. It's really sad; there are times I wanted to just turn around and ask them "Have you even THOUGHT about the fact that some of these rituals and superstitions don't make any sense? Do you only believe in them because someone told you to?"


The good news is that I know I'm passing the class and I only have about 3 weeks left with this blowhard and then I'll never have to hear his annoying condescending voice ever again. Drinking Beverage
That is the practical tack to take.

However, wouldn't it be fun to say, when he goes off-track,
"Professor, I thought this course was about Islamic horseshit, not Catholic horseshit."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-11-2012, 03:51 PM
RE: Black Female Atheist vs Scared Theist Professor
"Professor, I thought this course was about Islamic horseshit, not Catholic horseshit." Laughat

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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16-11-2012, 12:36 PM
RE: Black Female Atheist vs Scared Theist Professor
(14-11-2012 01:53 PM)PeiPei22 Wrote:  Okay, so in case anyone hasn't seen my other threads, I'm a black female atheist currently taking a course in Islam at my university; keep in mind that this is NOT by choice but because it's a requirement for graduation and the course on Buddhism was already filled up. . . Angry

So I've already expressed in my past threads my dislike for not only the course itself, but for my self-righteous professor, who mind you is not a Muslim himself, but a Catholic, ex-priest (who always claims that he isn't in the class to preach but I've noticed that he constantly manages to lecture on his own views of god, religion,etc ). And I call him self-righteous because I think that he is teaching this course in a very patronizing way, almost as if to say, "Let me tell you all the silly things that Muslims believe in so I can correct them by then telling you all the truth, aka Roman Catholicism." Not surprisingly, while he's lecturing he rarely, if ever, gives the class a chance to challenge him on any of his claims or allows for class discussion on a particular lesson. (Usually my other professors encourage us to ask questions, chat about the subject with our classmates to find out who agrees, disagrees, etc)

Now he's already in the doghouse with me by suggesting that pregnancy by rape is somehow part of "God's Plan" and that's why abortion is a sin. Well this morning he tried to pull another fast one. . . .

I know you all will love this one too Tongue

The title of today's lesson was "The 5 Proofs of the existence of God"
Thumbsup Amazing right? I actually stopped doodling in my notebook to pay attention to this one.
So here were his "proofs" for how/why there is no doubt that god exists.(These are all what he had written on the board in front of us, I copied everything word for word).

1) There must be a Prime/ 1st mover: evolution was god's way of creating"

2) Uncaused cause vs cause effect i.e, nothing made god, god was just always there then suddenly decided to create the universe. (Again, his words, not mine)

3) Contingency-created something from nothing. Invisible creations. Basically god is the only being that can created something from nothing, he basically "willed" everything into existence.

4)Ultimate Perfection-God is perfect because all of his creations are perfect

5)Ultimate intelligence-because god is perfect and created the universe, he knows about everything that happens and everything that is going to happen, and that's why we should love, trust, and fear him.

He mentioned nothing about scientific evidence or physical proof that we could actually test for ourselves. He never mentioned any of the previous having to make any sense to us, whatsoever.
His basic reason for why god must exist is "'Cuz he just does, so there." Dodgy

So that was strike #1.

The second strike was an oldie but a goodie: life after death. The topic of the potential apocalaypse next month was brought up, and he asked a few people are they scared for December 21st 2012, will they run to church, temple or what have you to repent for their sins?

The first guy he asked simply said, "No." And I could've hugged him for that. Another girl behind asked why people should be afraid of death anyway, since it's inevitable and we shouldn't waste our lives trying to prevent it or behind afraid of it. Now my professor took this very mature and sensible comment about NOT being afraid of death, and claimed that this girl was "Ready to die." (Her point was that she didn't fear death, not that she wanted to die.)

So after class they had a little discussion at this desk about the matter, and since my desk is right next to his in front of the room, I just sat and listened to them chat; turns out the girl wasn't religious but still a deist, and went on and on about how god blesses her everyday, and she doesn't need to see him to believe in him and all that noise. I waited a moment and began to respond to her and started to reply by quoting a comment regarding death by my hero, Christopher Hitchens (a quote made shortly before his own death), when the professor interrupted me in mid-sentence to respond to my classmate. By time he finished making his absurd point, his next class was starting to file in so we had to leave. I stood there looking him directly in the face for a moment, and he gave me this look like "Oh, did you want to talk? Too bad, it's time for you to go, my next class is starting."

I have a feeling he already knew what I was going to say, or along the lines of it, because I have politely let him know verbally at least 3 times already that I am a non-believer, and I've also on a few occassions tried to challenge the points he's made in class. And everytime I threw him a curveball and made a counterpoint, he'd re-address the question to the class (by simply re-stating what I clearly just said in his own words) then getting back to his point. He's never successfully managed to answer any of challenging points and he seems quick to change the subject. I'm not surprised, but it still pisses me off that he seems too scared to take my questions head on.

I'd love a challenge! In fact, I'd be more than happy to to a friendly debate with a theist. I think he's just too scared to do so in front of 20 or so people in a classroom. My thing is, if you're so knowledgable on the subject and if you think you're truly right, what are you so afraid of? If you think you can take me on and debunk all or even some of my claims, be my guest!

But no one ever hit a homerun by sitting in the dugout, know what I mean? Cool
Three comments:

1) "God is perfect because all of his creations are perfect"
Hurricanes
Tornadoes
Earthquakes
Tsunamis
Mud slides
Disease
Prenatal disabilities
Exploding planets
Space debris (asteroids, etc.)
Burned out suns
Heck, even human beings

Apparently, I missed something when I learned the definition of "perfect". Drinking Beverage

2) Fear (from point #5):
That concept has always bothered me. If there is truly an omnibenevolent god (which is what Catholics do believe, so your professor should too), why would we ever fear him?

3) The Dec 2012 prophecy:
Since when do Catholics believe in or follow the Mayan calendar? And what does this have to do with God?

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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