"Black People can never be Racist."
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14-02-2017, 03:35 AM
RE: "Black People can never be Racist."
(14-02-2017 03:27 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(14-02-2017 02:54 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I'm Caucasian. The vast majority of assholes I've encountered in my life have also been Caucasian. I hate my fellow white people, that makes me a racist, and I'm okay with that.
Not unless you assume, without evidence, that I am an asshole just because I'm Caucasian. You racist fuck. Tongue

Don't let that fool you, I do hate myself as well.

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14-02-2017, 05:55 AM
RE: "Black People can never be Racist."
(14-02-2017 12:02 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(13-02-2017 10:01 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  We all bleed red, and our shit's all brown , and it stinks equally.

Unless you suffer form porphyria, then your shit is a delightful purple. Blink

Or you eat a bunch of beets.......


But that's everybody......

.......................................

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14-02-2017, 07:20 AM
RE: "Black People can never be Racist."
My experiences with racism were rather weird.

I grew up in post Hitler Germany, in a bubble. The Hitler thing was so fresh that no one talked about it, it triggered everyone. I didn't even learn about it in school. There were no black people, the only "race" thing was that I had a Jewish uncle, and that was only mentioned in passing once.

In grade school, the father and brother of a friend came up to me once and had a "talk" with me. They said that my friend was Jewish and what did I think of that. I felt that this was very important to them, but didn't know why. So I asked whether this was important. They looked at each other, said they guessed not, and that was that.

The first black person I met was a young man sitting in a bus. I must have been 10 or so. He caught me staring at him and smiled. I was embarrassed and I smiled back. That was that for many years to come.

I ran into black US soldiers when I was a hippie, and we hippies always welcomed everyone. Nothing remarkable there. We shared joints and giggled.

Next I moved to the states. I had heard about slavery, it was an abstract to me. My concept was that at one time people kept others as pets. It all seemed like ancient history to me, like Hitler when I grew up. I saw black people everywhere, doing everything whites did. I didn't get what the big deal was. It was a big deal though because my questions were met mostly with anger - from my very non-judgemental compatriots. Add in that everyone wore afros and - yes - it's true - I could not tell many people apart. This seemed to upset everyone - almost everyone.

I went to junior college to get my English up to speed and in Oakland, CA the students there were probably 80% black, often I was the only white in class. This was the time of black panthers. I met some there at school, and they were the ones willing to talk about this with me and explain the background of it all. Nobody got upset at my stupid questions, while my liberal white friends mostly just tried to shut me up. I suppose my questions were so direct and basic that whites were ill equipped to answer.

This was all very strange to me. But it was a good education. I went from being raised in a bubble to hanging with hippies who made no distinctions to the charged environment of Oakland in the early seventies.

Where do I stand now? Just shaking my head at the fact that this hasn't long gone away. Social evolution is slow, add in that the avoidance of those who are not like us appears to be instinctive and I suppose that explains it.

Just sad. And yes, I think there are racists of all colors. Even when there is still no exposure to visible differences, people are still feuding with neighbor villages because they are different.

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15-02-2017, 03:20 AM
RE: "Black People can never be Racist."
(13-02-2017 08:06 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  So I was on FB the other day when I saw one of my friends posted this.

[Image: 26908fecb7c874417126fa918b5d6433.jpg]

I responded with





Which apernlty didn't sit well with a young Lady we will call Mrs. C.

Mrs. C.: no they cannot. a race that is unilaterally subjugated is incapable. also consider trying to garner superiority in an environment of institutionalized racism. just not possible.

NX: Perhaps some are holding onto a concept of what racism is, is different than others, but, by definition, any race can be racist towards others. Racism, by definition, is to believe one's race is superior to another. Really no other requirements. Institutions don't need to be involved for that to be possible. As long as one believes their race is somehow better than another, that's racism.

Mrs. C: the basic requirement is the ability to feel superiority. again with institionalized racism and years of oppression it's not possible. prejudice yes, racism, no.

Common: Rasict: A person who shows OR feels discrimination OR prejudice against people of other races, who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Being prejudice and be racist are not mutually exclusive. It also isn't soulie for a different race people can feel that their own race is "inferior". (I think of the comedy skit from Chappell show with the Blind KKK leader.) The term Race is also only skin deep. The amount of melanin in a person's skin doesn't affect a person's thought capability. That comes from cultural upbringing. To say a person is immune from being capable of belittling or thinking one race holds a high ground soulie because of their skin shade is not only silly it's racist.

Mrs. C.: incapable, not immune

Racism

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent diffrences among the vious human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that particular racial group is inferiour to others.

2. A policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such doctrine; discrimination.

3. Hatered of intolerance of another race or other races.


Mrs. C. : by the second definition alone it is just not possible for POC to be racist. again, produce yes, without a doubt, racist no. the very fabric of this country is designed to keep POC from ever feeling superior. there is always that law, rule or white person that tries reminds us that we are, in always will be, inferior. and when their verbal reminders are ignored, there's cultural upbringing or not, there's always "stop and frisk", racial profiling or travel bans. we do not hold that kind of power, so we will do not have the authority to exert the superiority that comes with true, unadulterated, racism.

Common: Dictionary definitions are not a check list. If you choose to ignore the other usages of the word then it is easy to see where we have the miss communication.

Your a human just like I am, capable of the same flaws and misconceptions. If at any moment you think that simply because the color of the skin (This goes for everyone) that anyone that doesn't have the matching skin tone, or ancestral lineage makes you better. Be that threw physical or mental supiourty that is racist.

If my comments are being ignored because you're making snap judgements about me based on my skin. That is racist.

Now if the conversation is being directed more to how society seems to favor and discriminate minority groups we may have more points of agreement.

But the point I was addressing was statements like. "I can't be racist because my race is impervious, incapable, to it. But everyone else is, and can." Your inflating yourself to being Superior to Therefore being racist.

Mrs. C. : i havent ignored a single thing you wrote. I feel accused of simplifying something far more complex than a definition in a dictionary. and I'm about done with oppressors telling me I'm not oppressed and to suck it up and I'm the offender and God forbid I ever treat you how I've been treated (two wrongs and all that bs). the abuser blaming the abused. classic. listen, I do not refute that Black people can be as cruel and vicious as we have been treated. I don't refute that black people can be the same assholes white people can be but black people cannot be racist. period. flaws and all, if you really want to have an open and honest conversation with black people or any person of color, white people need to accept their part in the oppression, yes oppression of blacks followed by systematic institionalized racism that makes it impossible for backs to be racist. I stand by that. I live it every day..even the most well meaning white person can send a conversation back by their refusal to see the whole picture. not just the parts that vindicate them or demand that we gently handle their feelings. you're so excited to point a finger to deflect you miss the whole point. NOW I'm going to ignore the rest of your posts...

So am I wrong here? Do People of Color have some sort of anti-racism gene?

I felt like the only one going off topic was Mrs. C. But it be nice to get outsiders opinions?

I'd place this in the Conspiracy thread.

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15-02-2017, 03:35 AM
RE: "Black People can never be Racist."
I just had a stoned black guy call me a racist when I couldn't get him a room, because it was 3AM and the hotel's systems were tied up crunching the numbers for the night audit.

Fun times.

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15-02-2017, 05:06 AM
RE: "Black People can never be Racist."
(15-02-2017 03:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I just had a stoned black guy call me a racist when I couldn't get him a room, because it was 3AM and the hotel's systems were tied up crunching the numbers for the night audit.

Fun times.

Heh, tell him to wait until the next person comes in and listen to what you tell them, too.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-02-2017, 05:19 AM
RE: "Black People can never be Racist."
(15-02-2017 03:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I just had a stoned black guy call me a racist when I couldn't get him a room, because it was 3AM and the hotel's systems were tied up crunching the numbers for the night audit.

Fun times.

When I was in the Coast Guard -

I had this black guy come up to me in the rec deck - and asked "Can I hold 20 dollars for you"? ....

WTF? This guy was a new 2nd class (E-5) who had only been there a couple of weeks - and already was developing a rep as a mooch. Bumming cigarettes, drinking everybody's beer...

"Can I hold 20 dollars for you"??? -- this bit of convoluted English made me decide right then and there -- that this guy was an idiot..... So I decided I needed to play with him.

"Hold 20 dollars? What do you mean? Do you think I can't handle my money, and I need you to put me on an allowance?"

He rolled his eyes and said "No man -- I just need to hold 20 dollars for you, you know???"

I looked at him, cocked my head - and pretended to contemplate the meaning of his words.

I said "OOhhhhh -- you want to BORROW 20 dollars..."

He got gruff -- "Yeah - I want to borrow 20 dollars.."

I answered -- "Shit -- first you want to HOLD 20 dollars, now you want to BORROW 20 dollars -- next thing, you're going to want me to GIVE you 20 dollars.. I don't like where this is going" - and I turned heels, and walked out the room....

He was pissed -- and complained to the command.

I pointed out that they should talk to my old roommate -- who'd finally moved into his own private room when one came available........ His name was Ricky - and he and I had shown up at the command on the same day -- got in the same room, and same duty section for a solid 6 months (the longest I ever had a roommate) --- and he and I had done a fair bit of drinking together as well..... We got along great - and I even went to Thanksgiving dinner at his parents (who lived a couple hours south of us).. He was black. We got along great.

He told the CO that the mooch was a fucking mooch -- it had nothing to do with his skin color.

Case dismissed.

.......................................

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15-02-2017, 05:42 AM
RE: "Black People can never be Racist."
Try being the only white person in all black middle school class.
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15-02-2017, 10:55 AM
RE: "Black People can never be Racist."
(14-02-2017 02:03 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  I'd argue that that definition 2 COULD happen, to degrees, even in a minority/oppressed race.

Two ways this could happen.

1) A black police officer who is racist towards blacks. This can happen when he has absorbed stereotypes and attitudes prevalent in the larger society. He might think the perceived negative qualities are societal rather than genetic, and he might think himself an exception to the rule, or part of a relatively small segment that can rise above it. Or perhaps he doesn't REALLY believe it, but feels he needs to be harsher with blacks than with whites in order to fit in with the law enforcement community. But regardless of whatever's going on in his head, he might (for example) come down far more harshly on rowdy black children than white children on the grounds that he perceives them as being more unlawful despite engage in exactly the same behavior. This fully meets the example of a person of color being racist, in the sense of engaging in institutionalized oppression, despite being a member of the class oppressed by the very racism he's engaged in..

2) Racism directed against even-more-disadvantaged races. As a hypothetical example, someone who's black assuming that all Hispanics are undocumented and haranguing them for "taking our jobs".

Whatcha talking about Reltzik?

[Image: mg-O96xI.jpg]

Ok, David Clarke is difficult to explain. He is probably just an asshole and a bully, regardless of race of the victim. But I suspect he is one of those that go out of their way to be particularly harsh to other blacks in the belief that this would make mainstream society forget that they are themselves black(i.e. "part of the problem").

His is an extreme case of a phenomenon I am almost certain every black person in the US is familiar with. It's hard to explain it to non-black people. But it goes along the lines of if you walk into a store, even a regular 7-eleven where they don't know you, you need to send a clear signal, as soon as possible, that you are not a threat - a smile, a hello, change an accent, something to make you look harmless...so you can browse freely without enduring worrisome glances. Of course everyone needs to put at others at ease. It just usually requires a bit more effort in that department if you are black IMO.

A David Clarke would do that, but also go out of his way and lash out at another black customer or say something equally stupid to "win acceptance". There are terms for such guys that I prefer not to use here. Also some blacks are harsher towards others because they feel that tough love is what they need.

Institutionalized racism against whites by blacks, while rare, does exist. I have read of such stories in the economic sphere, though I can't find one right now. If it exists in law enforcement it's even more rare.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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16-02-2017, 06:18 PM
RE: "Black People can never be Racist."
(15-02-2017 10:55 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(14-02-2017 02:03 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  I'd argue that that definition 2 COULD happen, to degrees, even in a minority/oppressed race.

Two ways this could happen.

1) A black police officer who is racist towards blacks. This can happen when he has absorbed stereotypes and attitudes prevalent in the larger society. He might think the perceived negative qualities are societal rather than genetic, and he might think himself an exception to the rule, or part of a relatively small segment that can rise above it. Or perhaps he doesn't REALLY believe it, but feels he needs to be harsher with blacks than with whites in order to fit in with the law enforcement community. But regardless of whatever's going on in his head, he might (for example) come down far more harshly on rowdy black children than white children on the grounds that he perceives them as being more unlawful despite engage in exactly the same behavior. This fully meets the example of a person of color being racist, in the sense of engaging in institutionalized oppression, despite being a member of the class oppressed by the very racism he's engaged in..

2) Racism directed against even-more-disadvantaged races. As a hypothetical example, someone who's black assuming that all Hispanics are undocumented and haranguing them for "taking our jobs".

Whatcha talking about Reltzik?

[Image: mg-O96xI.jpg]

Ok, David Clarke is difficult to explain. He is probably just an asshole and a bully, regardless of race of the victim. But I suspect he is one of those that go out of their way to be particularly harsh to other blacks in the belief that this would make mainstream society forget that they are themselves black(i.e. "part of the problem").

His is an extreme case of a phenomenon I am almost certain every black person in the US is familiar with. It's hard to explain it to non-black people. But it goes along the lines of if you walk into a store, even a regular 7-eleven where they don't know you, you need to send a clear signal, as soon as possible, that you are not a threat - a smile, a hello, change an accent, something to make you look harmless...so you can browse freely without enduring worrisome glances. Of course everyone needs to put at others at ease. It just usually requires a bit more effort in that department if you are black IMO.

A David Clarke would do that, but also go out of his way and lash out at another black customer or say something equally stupid to "win acceptance". There are terms for such guys that I prefer not to use here. Also some blacks are harsher towards others because they feel that tough love is what they need.

Institutionalized racism against whites by blacks, while rare, does exist. I have read of such stories in the economic sphere, though I can't find one right now. If it exists in law enforcement it's even more rare.

Rare in the US. Farms in Zimbabwe, though...

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