Poll: Do black people have a rational fear about the restablishment of slavery?
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Black people live in fear that slavery will be reinstituted
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24-10-2016, 08:38 AM
RE: Black people live in fear that slavery will be reinstituted
Oh look folks, it's an ugly pig!

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@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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25-10-2016, 10:28 AM (This post was last modified: 25-10-2016 10:36 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: Black people live in fear that slavery will be reinstituted
Guys, as nuts as it sounds, there may be good reason that these fears are legitimate. A review of the Thirteenth Amendment yields the following:

Section 1.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2.

Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


As such, currently in the United States, it is still technically legal to pass laws which make enslavement a punishment for certain crimes and this has been done in the past.

I don't know what the limits and terms of such a law are, but it does seem to indicate that the state can completely strip another person of their civil rights and then make them the property of another. Some people argue that our current prison system is an example of this making convicted criminals into slaves of the state. But even prisoners are granted some rights under law.

Still it raises a lot of scary questions. Could a southern legislature enact a law and have it signed by the governor making slavery a punishment? If so would it only be temporary? Could said slave be sold to a private party? Can their full civil rights be restored? Could they be subject to physical or sexual abuse or killed by their masters with impunity from the state?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/20.../14086227/

On Sept. 15, 1963, the bomb that killed four girls at the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Ala., showed America just how far we had to go to fulfill the promise of justice and equality for all, even a century after the 13th Amendment ended slavery. Half a century after the bombing, the struggle is not over, in part because language in that same amendment still undermines the equal humanity of more than 7 million Americans who have been convicted of a crime.

Ratified at the end of the Civil War, the amendment abolished slavery, with one critical exception: Slavery and involuntary servitude actually remain lawful "as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted." In other words, according to this so-called punishment clause, if you get pulled over with the wrong controlled substance in your trunk, there's nothing in the 13th Amendment to ensure you can't be considered a slave of the state.

The punishment clause was taken directly from the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 and reflected the belief of the time that hard work was essential to prisoners' moral rehabilitation. But the language was also ambiguous enough to be grossly abused. Soon, the clause was being used to reinstitute slavery under another guise.

Excuse for new abuse

In 1866, just a year after the Civil War, a black man convicted of theft in Maryland was advertised for sale in the newspaper as punishment. "Vagrancy" — code for being young, black and unemployed — could yield similar results.

Decades later, famed abolitionist Frederick Douglass described how the widespread "convict lease system" exploited the punishment clause to subvert the noble intent of the 13th Amendment: "(States) claim to be too poor to maintain state convicts within prison walls. Hence the convicts are leased out to work for railway contractors, mining companies and those who farm large plantations. These companies assume charge of the convicts, work them as cheap labor and pay the states a handsome revenue for their labor. Nine-tenths of these convicts are negroes." Douglass went on to note that so many blacks were behind bars because law enforcement tended to target them.

Importantly, Supreme Court decisions of the 20th century ensured that no one today is sentenced to actual slavery as a form of criminal punishment, but shades of Douglass' critique still ring true. Black men are incarcerated at six times the rate of white men, thanks in part to uneven enforcement and sentencing in the "war on drugs." While drug use rates vary little among racial groups, people of color stand a much better chance of being searched, prosecuted and convicted than whites, and government studies have found that they serve longer sentences.

Racially imbalanced enforcement also means that minorities are more likely to suffer consequences that outlast their sentences: difficulty finding jobs and housing, lost access to government benefits and, in some places, disenfranchisement.

Next year, the United States will mark the 150th anniversary of the abolition of slavery when, at the cost of 600,000 lives, we concluded that all people, regardless of color, are made in the image of their creator and that slavery is an abomination. Not just because it compels labor, but because it denies the full dignity and value of the enslaved person. As long as it remains in the Constitution, the punishment clause is an offensive vestige of the legacy of dehumanizing and often racist practices in the American criminal justice system.

No less human

Breaking the law does not make the 7 million Americans behind bars, on probation or on parole any less human. While it's true that offenders properly forfeit certain rights and privileges, including their freedom, they also retain many others carefully laid out in the Bill of Rights and elsewhere. By definition, slavery goes far beyond the removal of freedom; it denies the humanity of the enslaved. Why should language that calls into question the basic equality and dignity of millions of Americans persist in our country's Constitution?

Meaningful work can be part of a restorative corrections policy. Many prisoners need to learn skills that will make them employable after release. Prison jobs also help people maintain a sense of purpose and structure during long sentences. Society as a whole also benefits when prisoners' labor allows them to pay restitution. But slavery — labor that dehumanizes one person for the profit of another — has no place in prisons or in the Constitution.

We need a national dialog about amending the 13th Amendment. Current implications of the punishment clause should be the talk of every college course in criminal justice. It should be debated in every state legislature and in the halls of Congress. Here, in the home of nearly a quarter of the world's prisoners, every American should know about the scandalous persistence of slavery in our nation's most fundamental document.

Afterward, to paraphrase British abolitionist William Wilberforce, we can choose to look the other way, but we can never say again that we did not know.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

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26-10-2016, 12:42 AM
RE: Black people live in fear that slavery will be reinstituted
(23-10-2016 09:42 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(23-10-2016 09:13 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  You lost me at "black people are stupid."

Hopefully you don't die an embittered racist ... bit them are some long odds, on that one.

This racist fucktard has been on my ignore list for nearly four years, you can see why.

I myself avoid ignoring especially assholes like this ... "all it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing", that trope sums up my view.
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26-10-2016, 12:44 AM
RE: Black people live in fear that slavery will be reinstituted
(23-10-2016 09:48 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(23-10-2016 09:13 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  You lost me at "black people are stupid."

Hopefully you don't die an embittered racist ... bit them are some long odds, on that one.

Let me know when you run into a black person denouncing Tavis Smiley's analysis. I do not recall any blacks denouncing Vice President Biden's remarks.
Weeping

I'm not really worried about meeting your personal metrics, kid. You'll have to live with the opinions you've bought for yourself.
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26-10-2016, 12:48 AM
RE: Black people live in fear that slavery will be reinstituted
(25-10-2016 10:28 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Guys, as nuts as it sounds, there may be good reason that these fears are legitimate. A review of the Thirteenth Amendment yields the following:

Section 1.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2.

Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


As such, currently in the United States, it is still technically legal to pass laws which make enslavement a punishment for certain crimes and this has been done in the past.

I don't know what the limits and terms of such a law are, but it does seem to indicate that the state can completely strip another person of their civil rights and then make them the property of another. Some people argue that our current prison system is an example of this making convicted criminals into slaves of the state. But even prisoners are granted some rights under law.

Still it raises a lot of scary questions. Could a southern legislature enact a law and have it signed by the governor making slavery a punishment? If so would it only be temporary? Could said slave be sold to a private party? Can their full civil rights be restored? Could they be subject to physical or sexual abuse or killed by their masters with impunity from the state?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/20.../14086227/

On Sept. 15, 1963, the bomb that killed four girls at the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Ala., showed America just how far we had to go to fulfill the promise of justice and equality for all, even a century after the 13th Amendment ended slavery. Half a century after the bombing, the struggle is not over, in part because language in that same amendment still undermines the equal humanity of more than 7 million Americans who have been convicted of a crime.

Ratified at the end of the Civil War, the amendment abolished slavery, with one critical exception: Slavery and involuntary servitude actually remain lawful "as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted." In other words, according to this so-called punishment clause, if you get pulled over with the wrong controlled substance in your trunk, there's nothing in the 13th Amendment to ensure you can't be considered a slave of the state.

The punishment clause was taken directly from the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 and reflected the belief of the time that hard work was essential to prisoners' moral rehabilitation. But the language was also ambiguous enough to be grossly abused. Soon, the clause was being used to reinstitute slavery under another guise.

Excuse for new abuse

In 1866, just a year after the Civil War, a black man convicted of theft in Maryland was advertised for sale in the newspaper as punishment. "Vagrancy" — code for being young, black and unemployed — could yield similar results.

Decades later, famed abolitionist Frederick Douglass described how the widespread "convict lease system" exploited the punishment clause to subvert the noble intent of the 13th Amendment: "(States) claim to be too poor to maintain state convicts within prison walls. Hence the convicts are leased out to work for railway contractors, mining companies and those who farm large plantations. These companies assume charge of the convicts, work them as cheap labor and pay the states a handsome revenue for their labor. Nine-tenths of these convicts are negroes." Douglass went on to note that so many blacks were behind bars because law enforcement tended to target them.

Importantly, Supreme Court decisions of the 20th century ensured that no one today is sentenced to actual slavery as a form of criminal punishment, but shades of Douglass' critique still ring true. Black men are incarcerated at six times the rate of white men, thanks in part to uneven enforcement and sentencing in the "war on drugs." While drug use rates vary little among racial groups, people of color stand a much better chance of being searched, prosecuted and convicted than whites, and government studies have found that they serve longer sentences.

Racially imbalanced enforcement also means that minorities are more likely to suffer consequences that outlast their sentences: difficulty finding jobs and housing, lost access to government benefits and, in some places, disenfranchisement.

Next year, the United States will mark the 150th anniversary of the abolition of slavery when, at the cost of 600,000 lives, we concluded that all people, regardless of color, are made in the image of their creator and that slavery is an abomination. Not just because it compels labor, but because it denies the full dignity and value of the enslaved person. As long as it remains in the Constitution, the punishment clause is an offensive vestige of the legacy of dehumanizing and often racist practices in the American criminal justice system.

No less human

Breaking the law does not make the 7 million Americans behind bars, on probation or on parole any less human. While it's true that offenders properly forfeit certain rights and privileges, including their freedom, they also retain many others carefully laid out in the Bill of Rights and elsewhere. By definition, slavery goes far beyond the removal of freedom; it denies the humanity of the enslaved. Why should language that calls into question the basic equality and dignity of millions of Americans persist in our country's Constitution?

Meaningful work can be part of a restorative corrections policy. Many prisoners need to learn skills that will make them employable after release. Prison jobs also help people maintain a sense of purpose and structure during long sentences. Society as a whole also benefits when prisoners' labor allows them to pay restitution. But slavery — labor that dehumanizes one person for the profit of another — has no place in prisons or in the Constitution.

We need a national dialog about amending the 13th Amendment. Current implications of the punishment clause should be the talk of every college course in criminal justice. It should be debated in every state legislature and in the halls of Congress. Here, in the home of nearly a quarter of the world's prisoners, every American should know about the scandalous persistence of slavery in our nation's most fundamental document.

Afterward, to paraphrase British abolitionist William Wilberforce, we can choose to look the other way, but we can never say again that we did not know.

... and included in that discussion needs to be private prisons.
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26-10-2016, 08:32 AM
RE: Black people live in fear that slavery will be reinstituted
Black people are still slaves.

They are slaves to the democratic party, who don't actually do anything for them except handouts in exchange for votes. Keep them dependent so they keep those votes coming.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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26-10-2016, 03:36 PM
RE: Black people live in fear that slavery will be reinstituted
"I'll take 'Equivocation' for a True Daily Double, Alex."
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01-11-2016, 08:37 PM
RE: Black people live in fear that slavery will be reinstituted
Nice to see an atheist community festering with racists as usual. /s
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01-11-2016, 10:10 PM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2016 10:13 PM by Metazoa Zeke.)
RE: Black people live in fear that slavery will be reinstituted
(01-11-2016 08:37 PM)ViolexTV Wrote:  Nice to see an atheist community festering with racists as usual. /s

Just realized this was sarcasm. Sorry dude.

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01-11-2016, 10:37 PM
RE: Black people live in fear that slavery will be reinstituted
(23-10-2016 08:35 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  I don't think black people understand how difficult that was, nor do they understand that that is what their true grievance is. There are all kinds of aspects that lead to the demise of slavery that black people cannot figure out for themselves, because it is true - black people are stupid.

Sure the history of slavery was a lot more nuance than most people think. And this isn't just blacks. Whites,hispanics,asians,etc, only know what is taught mainstream. So the reason black people might not know these nuances isn't because they are all stupid, but because they haven't looked into it. Just because you don't know everything about everything doesn't make one stupid.

(23-10-2016 08:35 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  It is absolutely absurd to believe that Travis Smiley did not review Vice President Biden's remarks during the 2012 election suggesting that the Republicans are determined to reestablish slavery.

Because like republicans, democrats say really stupid shit. Sometimes it is better to just let the stupid fester.

(23-10-2016 08:35 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  There is a larger portion of the white population that believes that black people should be deported, segregated, or exterminated

Source?

(23-10-2016 08:35 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  It is absurd to believe that a black person has not pondered the question about a return to slavery.

You know that how?


(23-10-2016 08:35 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Blacks are obsessed with slavery, and we, white people, are responsible for such errors in their broken culture - we have to fix it for them.

Replace slavery with the past, and I agree. I believe that we should not forget but forgive and a do agree that white people today shouldn't be blamed for it. Hell a lot of white people didn't have any of there ancestors come to America till after slavery and some after Segregation. The black community does have problems today, but none forced by white people. The problem you have is instead of using this in order to make a valid case, you use it to say inaccuracies(i.e black people are stupid).

(23-10-2016 08:35 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  There are not enough white people who believe that black people are justified in their criticisms of the United States.

Depends on what criticisms. You paint things with a broad brush, and not in a understandable or correct way. Nobody disagrees with the fact the black community has problems, just the fact surrounding it.

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