Bleach. How does it work??
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26-08-2016, 01:52 PM
RE: Bleach. How does it work??
I don't know how bleach works either but I remember my son being very unimpressed when I tried to bleach red clay and grass stains out of his Little League baseball pants. As it turns out that particular kind of fabric, in white, turns a lovely shade of pink when bleached. Undecided

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26-08-2016, 03:08 PM
RE: Bleach. How does it work??
(26-08-2016 12:36 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(26-08-2016 11:57 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Cl2 + H2O ⇌ H+ + Cl− + HClO

It's dem "H" atoms.

Yeah? OK. But, not to sound too stupid, what do the "H" atoms do with the stain, hide it somewhere?

Yes.
They have little atom pockets, and they hide them in there.

They break the bonds in the molecule that causes the color.

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26-08-2016, 03:15 PM
RE: Bleach. How does it work??
(26-08-2016 03:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(26-08-2016 12:36 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Yeah? OK. But, not to sound too stupid, what do the "H" atoms do with the stain, hide it somewhere?

Yes.
They have little atom pockets, and they hide them in there.

They break the bonds in the molecule that causes the color.

Hummm. Interesting. When I dye fabric, which I do quite frequently, I add a half a cup of iodine free salt to the dye vat to set the dye. I don't know what is actually happening with the salt and the dye, but it works.

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27-08-2016, 01:21 AM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2016 01:42 AM by Gloucester.)
RE: Bleach. How does it work??
I would guess the bleach breaks down loads of organic compounds, just that breaking down the stain is the desired thing. Leave it long enough and it will break down linen, cotton or wool. Not sure about synthetics, probably not.

If we are doing domestic chemistry and breaking bonds now setting permanent waves in hair is a good one.

Hair is a sort of polymer, its molecules are in very long chains, bit like a ladder with sulphur as the rungs. Break all the rungs off and you can move the sides independently, even bend them.

Then put the rungs back in to keep the shape. 'Cept there are trillions of ladders and always a few million loose rungs left over to drift around. That's why that method of "perming" hair always stinks a little like rotten eggs are being used.

Then try soaking shredded "red" cabbage, some in vinegar, some in a baking soda solution, then some in one liquid then the other, washing between (some cabbages react differently than others, this will let you see the full range of colours.) Wash afterward and mix with white cabbage, it makes a patriotic salad! (If your flag is red, white and blue that is.) Or just a more colourful on if you get orange or yellow instead of red.

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27-08-2016, 02:13 AM
RE: Bleach. How does it work??
(26-08-2016 03:15 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(26-08-2016 03:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Yes.
They have little atom pockets, and they hide them in there.

They break the bonds in the molecule that causes the color.

Hummm. Interesting. When I dye fabric, which I do quite frequently, I add a half a cup of iodine free salt to the dye vat to set the dye. I don't know what is actually happening with the salt and the dye, but it works.
Dunno how it works but . . . The salt is called a "mordant" , fixes the colour. Urine is also a mordant. In ancient Roman cities it was illegal to pour urine down the drain, it was too important as a mordant and for tanning leather (it forms ammonia which removes the fats etc from the leather.) That's one reason why dye works and tanneries are places to avoid in, er, less sophisticated cultures!

Hey! It's gone from removing colour to adding and fixing it! Big Grin

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27-08-2016, 04:29 PM
RE: Bleach. How does it work??
(26-08-2016 03:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(26-08-2016 12:36 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Yeah? OK. But, not to sound too stupid, what do the "H" atoms do with the stain, hide it somewhere?

Yes.
They have little atom pockets, and they hide them in there.

They break the bonds in the molecule that causes the color.

Bucky, if that were true, any acid would be a "bleach" and they aren't. It is oxidation/reduction (redox) chemistry doing the job, not the acidic nature of the chemical.

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27-08-2016, 04:37 PM
RE: Bleach. How does it work??
(26-08-2016 11:15 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I mean I take a white cloth stained with blueberry juice. I put it in a jar with bleach and water. I shake for a minute and voila. Clean. I mean I get it....the cloth is bleached...but where the fuck did the colour go?? The liquid remains clear. There was a ton of purple that went into that jar. Now it's gone. Poof. Where's all the goddam purple?

Consider

Yea easy to do when the stain is wet. Let that same stain bake in the sun in 95degrees for a day or two, then do the same thing and see if it works.

Bleach also discolors things too. Knowing how to use it helps. I personally have tried it on my whites when I worked in a kitchen that required me to buy a work jacket. I never got it right. Never understood how to properly use it, ended up with patchy white and it never fully got the stains out.

But chemistry is why in any case. You are basically introducing a chemical that changes the molecular structure of the stain you are trying to remove.

Oh and most people don't know that "color" isn't actually in any object, but in light itself. What we perceive as color is what bounces off the object and goes to our eyes. What gets absorbed by the object is the absence of color we don't see from the light wave.

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27-08-2016, 04:48 PM
RE: Bleach. How does it work??
(26-08-2016 12:36 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(26-08-2016 11:57 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Cl2 + H2O ⇌ H+ + Cl− + HClO

It's dem "H" atoms.

Yeah? OK. But, not to sound too stupid, what do the "H" atoms do with the stain, hide it somewhere?

Not hiding, but changing. Atoms bond and depending on how they bond they change how we see them. But they can also act to break up molecules too, and if you rinse the stain out, you are really removing it as well as changing the appearance.

Don't over think it, it isn't magic at all. The simple explanation is chemical reaction from the bleach to the object.

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27-08-2016, 06:00 PM
RE: Bleach. How does it work??
(27-08-2016 04:29 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(26-08-2016 03:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Yes.
They have little atom pockets, and they hide them in there.

They break the bonds in the molecule that causes the color.

Bucky, if that were true, any acid would be a "bleach" and they aren't. It is oxidation/reduction (redox) chemistry doing the job, not the acidic nature of the chemical.

Yeah that true ... duh. Bleach is very basic (high pH) ... I should have said it's the OH-'s

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27-08-2016, 06:24 PM
RE: Bleach. How does it work??
Well it starts off decent enough with some interesting characters but by the 100th episode your gonna wanna kill yourself.

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