Blood Moons
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06-09-2016, 08:59 PM
RE: Blood Moons
(06-09-2016 07:58 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  my preacher used to talk about how all of the horrible stuff was happening to christians over seas was coming here. that we seriously needed to consider if we would die for not denying jesus.
things like this did not help me at all. i would worry myself sick asking myself would i really die for jesus. but then the preacher would always throw in the "remember folks, if you deny jesus he will deny you in front of the father."
so being the christian i was i was really torn up about it. did i want my life to end because i wouldnt deny jesus or did i want to be denied by jesus..

the whole "turn from me i never knew you" thing was a large topic. in my church they said that was the scariest phrase you could ever hear in heaven.
and if you heard that, no matter what your life was prior to denying jesus.. you would be cast into the shadows of heaven. apparently thats like the worst thing. you cant go to the supper of the lamb.. you cant participate in the wedding.. you will live in the shadows for eternity where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
i was TORN up about all of this. in the end i was convinced i would never be a good enough christian because i loved the world. i love everything the world has to offer.. but because of that.. i could never be good enough.

Hug Stick around, read up on it. You'll eventually escape the programming. Throwing off that guilt isn't easy, I can tell you. Years ago my wife and I did some volunteer work with the Catholic Church, alongside our work with the Boy Scouts of America (we have three sons). We had problems getting parents to help out with the scouting work, and asked one of the religious leaders how to get people to do more. We were told, "Guilt works!". Dodgy I didn't like that answer. If people want to have their kids in something that they admire, they should engage in that process, instead of being consumers and expecting someone else to provide that service. I saw that mostly with people who were wealthy.
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06-09-2016, 09:12 PM
RE: Blood Moons
so i was googling some things about the blood moons.. and you know.. it just brings up more crap.
there are some people out there that believe a recent blood moon is yet again a sign of the end of the world. but not religious groups. some doomsday creeps.
apparently a giant planet is going to destroy us. planet x is what they called it.

why cant people just live normal lives without stressing everyone out about the end of the world? i cant even look up educational things without SOMEONE mentioning the end of the world.
stuff like that triggers me though. even though i think its total crap.. im sitting over here shaking with goosebumps.
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06-09-2016, 09:27 PM
RE: Blood Moons
(06-09-2016 09:12 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  so i was googling some things about the blood moons.. and you know.. it just brings up more crap.
there are some people out there that believe a recent blood moon is yet again a sign of the end of the world. but not religious groups. some doomsday creeps.
apparently a giant planet is going to destroy us. planet x is what they called it.

why cant people just live normal lives without stressing everyone out about the end of the world? i cant even look up educational things without SOMEONE mentioning the end of the world.
stuff like that triggers me though. even though i think its total crap.. im sitting over here shaking with goosebumps.

Stay away from the religious and doomsday prophecy junk. It almost sounds like you are trying to confirm your fears instead of putting them behind you.

Try some science.

http://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/blood-moon.html

No BS, just facts.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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06-09-2016, 09:38 PM
RE: Blood Moons
(06-09-2016 09:27 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(06-09-2016 09:12 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  so i was googling some things about the blood moons.. and you know.. it just brings up more crap.
there are some people out there that believe a recent blood moon is yet again a sign of the end of the world. but not religious groups. some doomsday creeps.
apparently a giant planet is going to destroy us. planet x is what they called it.

why cant people just live normal lives without stressing everyone out about the end of the world? i cant even look up educational things without SOMEONE mentioning the end of the world.
stuff like that triggers me though. even though i think its total crap.. im sitting over here shaking with goosebumps.

Stay away from the religious and doomsday prophecy junk. It almost sounds like you are trying to confirm your fears instead of putting them behind you.

Try some science.

http://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/blood-moon.html

No BS, just facts.

THAT is one of the pages i was able to read.
thats what i was trying to do to begin with.. but under the link when i went back to read more was a large picture of doom and multiple things saying things like surprise blood moon. because apparently one happened that wasnt predicted.
and if another one happens this month DOOM.
once i saw that stuff i got off of it. but the link you shared was one i did get to read before i trapped myself.
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07-09-2016, 05:59 AM
RE: Blood Moons
(06-09-2016 09:38 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  
(06-09-2016 09:27 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Stay away from the religious and doomsday prophecy junk. It almost sounds like you are trying to confirm your fears instead of putting them behind you.

Try some science.

http://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/blood-moon.html

No BS, just facts.

THAT is one of the pages i was able to read.
thats what i was trying to do to begin with.. but under the link when i went back to read more was a large picture of doom and multiple things saying things like surprise blood moon. because apparently one happened that wasnt predicted.
and if another one happens this month DOOM.
once i saw that stuff i got off of it. but the link you shared was one i did get to read before i trapped myself.

Anjele is right... but I'm going to disagree (or at least, agree differently) with one minor point. I don't think you should avoid the stuff that triggers you, unless it starts to feel overwhelming.

What I think will help you is to look for patterns in the way these various groups try to manipulate their victims. In other words, this other group's ideas are totally incompatible with the Christian theological claims... and yet, look, they use the exact same methods, make the exact same predictions, and have the exact same goals in mind (keeping people from thinking rationally in order to propagate their cults). The pattern even extends to TV commercials, which take advantage of the same brain circuits for urgency: "BUY NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!" or "LIMITED TIME ONLY!" translates to "don't think too much about whether or not this is a real bargain, or whether our competitors might offer better/cheaper products, or whether you even need this product... just feel an urgency and BUY NOW!!!"

Get it?

Once you see the pattern, it is no longer frightening:

Jesus Cult: "The Blood Moon signals the End of Times, when the Four Horsemen will ride upon the earth and Jesus will return!!!!"

Raelian Cult: "The Blood Moon signals the End of Times, when the Great Comet will come masking the alien starship, and we will all be taken to the skies!!!!"

Et cetera.

In other words, the similarities of these claims are not evidence that there's anything legitimate to any of them, but rather that the claims are all taking advantage of the same tricks to turn bullshit into something that sounds plausible, and/or that bypasses your reasoning center by making you feel a sense of fear and urgency.

It's scumbaggery at its finest. Religious indoctrination broke down your intellectual immune system to such attacks... we'll inoculate you against further ones, like a pro-skepticism vaccine. Smile

Then, once you learn to spot the pattern, you can simply look at what the actual scientific facts are, as Anjele suggested, and your fear turns to laughter. Because, when you're no longer gripped by the influence of this bullshit, it's pretty funny stuff, in hindsight.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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07-09-2016, 06:11 AM
RE: Blood Moons
(06-09-2016 07:58 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  [Jim Jones] used to talk about how all of the horrible stuff was happening to [The People's Temple] over seas was coming here. that we seriously needed to consider if we would die for not denying [Father Jones].
things like this did not help me at all. i would worry myself sick asking myself would i really die for [The People's Temple]. but then the [Father Jones] would always throw in the "remember folks, if you deny jesus he will deny you in front of the father."

Fixed that for you. Re-read that, in light of the Jonestown cult and see what you were being subjected to. It's easier when you're looking at the wording of something that is clearly a cult than it is to see it when it's something that has become so familiar to you (and is so widely accepted in our culture) that it no longer seems like a cult. Place its identical wording in another, less-familiar context, and the cult is obvious.



(06-09-2016 07:58 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  i was TORN up about all of this. in the end i was convinced i would never be a good enough christian because i loved the world. i love everything the world has to offer.. but because of that.. i could never be good enough.

This is a signature of any cult. The cult leaders absolutely *must* break their followers away from "the World" (as if they are not a part of the world), in order to cement their grasp upon the minds of the cultists.

Again, try to picture the most wacked-out cultists you can imagine, telling their members to avoid "The World", and you'll be able to look at your own religious upbringing in a new light, because they are nooooo different.

[Image: Ananda_Marga_tilhengere.jpg]

Or to put it another way, the old joke:

"Know what the difference between a mainstream religion and a religious cult is?"

The size of their membership rosters.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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07-09-2016, 07:09 AM
RE: Blood Moons
(06-09-2016 06:41 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(06-09-2016 03:29 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Fellow former Baptist, sounds about right. Lots of hellfire until we got a more liberal "God is love" minister; and Sunday School when I was 5 or 6, I remember them having us hand over our Bibles and tell us to write, chapter and verse, anything we could remember, because we were told (not told it was pretend until after) that the Bible had been outlawed by the government, and we had to write down what we knew to pass it on to future generations in secret. Only after we were done (with a few folks in tears), did they tell us it was pretend, and that we were being taught what it was like for people in other countries like the (then recently defunct) Soviet Union. But that it could happen in America any day, so we needed to memorize as much Scripture as possible.

We actually shot a student film, in which my sister and I "starred", which was made by one of our members studying to become a Christian filmmaker, about that very subject-- except it was more about being caught practicing Christianity and forced on pain of death to deny Christ. They were really big on preaching the notion that we were due for persecution, and had better be sure our faith was strong, etc.

I looked, hoping to find it on YouTube, but it was made in 1988 or so, so it was a long shot. Undecided

The funny part about the claim is that the Soviet constitutions always guaranteed freedom of religion and, despite a deliberate propaganda and coercion campaign to try to get people to give up their religion, the only instances I've ever read of Soviets killing Christians was by the actions of private individuals/groups (such as the League of the Militant Godless, who burned churches and killed priests) or because the church leaders openly called for armed and active resistance against the communist government... and that government showed little mercy to its enemies. One particularly bad incident was in 1922, when the state declared that the churches must turn over all their valuables, like good communists, but the churches rejected the demand because of their golden icons and other "sacred" treasures, at which point the state began to arrest and execute those who refused the order. Worse, in the 1930s, several hundred thousand anti-communist priests were arrested and/or executed on spurious charges. It's tragic and wrong at every level, but none of it is an outlawing of Christianity nor a prohibition against its practice. Rather, the Soviets seemed to see religious people as something to be pitied, as the commies saw religion as a means for exploitation of the ignorance of the common man by the clergy and the wealthy, which is why they mainly focused on propaganda for the masses and on programs (including arrest/execution pogroms) designed to break the power base of the clergy.

But I suppose that big block of TL;dr is a bit complex for the American fundamentalist brand of persecution fantasy. On numerous occasions had to explain to family members who expressed such a sentiment (when they forget for a moment that I am an atheist) that every atheist I know would fight alongside them in the face of such persecution, in defense of their right to freely practice whatever idiotic thing they wanted, because it is a defense of our Constitution and of the most basic principles of intellectual liberty.

(06-09-2016 03:29 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Edit: Also since we're doing cheese again, I feel the need to say "Cheese for the Cheese Gouda, provolone for the provolone throne!"

Awesome. Big Grin

It's a shame so few people get 40K references. Bunch of heretics, I tell you. Heretics!

Heretics indeed, and we all know that the God Emperor does not forgive heresy. (And if we go by old lore, he kinda is Jesus and Mohammed so...)

Also, totally understand on the constant persecution and stuff, even that which didn't exist but was claimed to. American Christianity in particular, seems to have this desire to be persecuted, or feel they're being persecuted. Unlike the examples like the anti-Communist clergy who were killed, even if it wasn't normally a state sanctioned purge sort of deal. Starbucks cups, Happy Holidays, not putting religious symbols on courthouse steps, etc. are all signs of imminent End Times because "persecution!", never mind what ISIS does to Christians, or the hundreds of Vietnamese Christians killed after Harold Camping's false Rapture prophecy gathered them in one easy-to-shoot spot, etc. That's nothing compared to when David Silverman or Dan Barker and Annie-Laurie Gaylor show up and say you can't have coach led prayer before the football game! (I hope my sarcasm is showing.)

Your TLDR about family makes me think of Jerry DeWitt. In one of his speeches, he talks about how one of his relatives reemed him because she saw on Facebook that Recovery from Religion was protesting a Ten Commandments monument at a courthouse. He was like "No that's the Freedom From Religion Foundation" and the relative calmed down that it wasn't the atheists he was involved with, and then he had to go, "But I support what they're doing, Dan and Annie-Laurie are my friends, and I agree with them about it." And relative became upset again.


(06-09-2016 06:47 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(06-09-2016 03:29 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Join Catholic Bronies on Facebook, we can disabuse you of that notion. <.< Last two posts in the group are screaming about "fedorabros who think Jesus was a myth need to go back to their cesspool forums" and "Comfort Catholicism is over, prepare for persecution."

Edit: Also since we're doing cheese again, I feel the need to say "Cheese for the Cheese Gouda, provolone for the provolone throne!"

Yeah, I have trouble with that. To me, if you believe in Jesus, you're a Christian. They're all the same to me. Maybe you're a Catholic Christian, or a Baptist Christian, but you're all still Christians.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. But 40,000+ denominations don't seem to...

(06-09-2016 07:58 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  the whole "turn from me i never knew you" thing was a large topic. in my church they said that was the scariest phrase you could ever hear in heaven.
and if you heard that, no matter what your life was prior to denying jesus.. you would be cast into the shadows of heaven. apparently thats like the worst thing. you cant go to the supper of the lamb.. you cant participate in the wedding.. you will live in the shadows for eternity where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
i was TORN up about all of this. in the end i was convinced i would never be a good enough christian because i loved the world. i love everything the world has to offer.. but because of that.. i could never be good enough.
If you'll pardon the use of the expression/word, "Amen." Constantly said the Sinner's Prayer after being Saved in case it didn't stick or something, and constantly fretted (and still do to an extent) about never feeling "on fire" for God.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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07-09-2016, 07:41 AM
RE: Blood Moons
(06-09-2016 09:37 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I"m sure you did.

...

The point is -- with morons like that - there's no point arguing with them. They'll take a nonsensical stance based on absolutely no facts - and stick to it regardless of whatever facts you bring to the table.

It's like mud wrestling with a pig.


After a while, you realize the pig's enjoying it...

..

A totally fucking awesome post I laughed so hard I nearly gave myself a hernia Bowing
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07-09-2016, 09:46 AM
RE: Blood Moons
(06-09-2016 12:40 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(06-09-2016 12:37 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Give up your foolish belief in g-----------------------------------------b.

It does NOT exist.

If it does, prove it.

Why do you think I should prove it? What would doing that gain me?

Credibility? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-09-2016, 10:08 AM
RE: Blood Moons
(07-09-2016 09:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-09-2016 12:40 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Why do you think I should prove it? What would doing that gain me?

Credibility? Consider

I don't care what you think of my credibility. It doesn't impact my life at all. If you don't think I'm credible, you're welcome to disagree with me. My life continues uninterrupted.

Think what you want. Maybe I'll earn your respect in another way.
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