Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
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31-03-2017, 07:13 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(30-03-2017 10:30 PM)skyking Wrote:  
(30-03-2017 09:14 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Those fat cells are designed to fill themselves back up so it takes a lot of discipline to keep it off. If you're 100lbs overweight pretty much the best you can hope for is to be 30 lbs overweight and it's a real bitch to keep it that way. But it's a combination of psychological and physiological, of course.

I'm quite happy to disagree with that, and aractus's surmise. Let's revisit this thread a year from now, I'll tell you how it went for me.

I know you can do it SK. You have the will of steel Smile
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31-03-2017, 07:35 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(30-03-2017 08:29 PM)Larai19 Wrote:  I thought it would be interesting to see what the forum's opinion on this.
If someone is morbidly obese and it is impacting their health viciously in a negative way, but said person was okay with that and appreciated their body, should someone intervene and try to convince that person to lose weight?

I just saw a few videos on YouTube about it and thought it'd be a fun discussion.

I think if someone wants help with any issue, they can always ask. A complicated situation like morbid obesity does tend to require outside help for even a temporary fix.

People can say what they want to each other, of course. However, I think telling an adult who did not ask for the advice what they should do with their body wanders out of the realm of friendship. If the conversation is reciprocal, maybe it's okay. For example, the advising friend may be perfectly happy for the overweight friend to respond with a list of the things the adviser should be doing to improve health, happiness, and attractiveness. That's not generally how those conversations tend to go, though.
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31-03-2017, 07:38 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(31-03-2017 12:02 AM)Aractus Wrote:  I do think it's sad that he blames himself.

Data backed or not, self blame is the only state of mind that can produce results. And I'm talking about any problem you have a desire to overcome, not just weight loss.

I've never understood why "It's not your fault" is supposed to be a comforting thought. If something is 97% not my fault and 3% within my ability to affect, then that 3% is the only part of the problem with paying attention to. The rest is irrelevant.

'Murican Canadian
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31-03-2017, 07:44 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(31-03-2017 07:38 AM)yakherder Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 12:02 AM)Aractus Wrote:  I do think it's sad that he blames himself.

Data backed or not, self blame is the only state of mind that can produce results. And I'm talking about any problem you have a desire to overcome, not just weight loss.

I've never understood why "It's not your fault" is supposed to be a comforting thought. If something is 97% not my fault and 3% within my ability to affect, then that 3% is the only part of the problem with paying attention to. The rest is irrelevant.

I don't see that as blame or fault.

I see it as taking responsibility - whether it is your fault or not.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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31-03-2017, 08:07 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(31-03-2017 07:35 AM)julep Wrote:  
(30-03-2017 08:29 PM)Larai19 Wrote:  I thought it would be interesting to see what the forum's opinion on this.
If someone is morbidly obese and it is impacting their health viciously in a negative way, but said person was okay with that and appreciated their body, should someone intervene and try to convince that person to lose weight?

I just saw a few videos on YouTube about it and thought it'd be a fun discussion.

I think if someone wants help with any issue, they can always ask. A complicated situation like morbid obesity does tend to require outside help for even a temporary fix.

People can say what they want to each other, of course. However, I think telling an adult who did not ask for the advice what they should do with their body wanders out of the realm of friendship. If the conversation is reciprocal, maybe it's okay. For example, the advising friend may be perfectly happy for the overweight friend to respond with a list of the things the adviser should be doing to improve health, happiness, and attractiveness. That's not generally how those conversations tend to go, though.

I agree, I think there's a nice way to offer help though. For example:

"I'm going to do some yoga, do you want to do some with me?"

"I hate seeing you in pain, if there's anything I can do to help, let me know."

I think there's a fine line though and imo, asking once is sufficient. I don't think you should keep pestering someone because like you say in your post, they're adults, they did not ask for advice, and its their body.
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31-03-2017, 08:17 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(31-03-2017 08:07 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 07:35 AM)julep Wrote:  I think if someone wants help with any issue, they can always ask. A complicated situation like morbid obesity does tend to require outside help for even a temporary fix.

People can say what they want to each other, of course. However, I think telling an adult who did not ask for the advice what they should do with their body wanders out of the realm of friendship. If the conversation is reciprocal, maybe it's okay. For example, the advising friend may be perfectly happy for the overweight friend to respond with a list of the things the adviser should be doing to improve health, happiness, and attractiveness. That's not generally how those conversations tend to go, though.

I agree, I think there's a nice way to offer help though. For example:

"I'm going to do some yoga, do you want to do some with me?"

"I hate seeing you in pain, if there's anything I can do to help, let me know."

I think there's a fine line though and imo, asking once is sufficient. I don't think you should keep pestering someone because like you say in your post, they're adults, they did not ask for advice, and its their body.

You can't ask a 600 pound person to do yoga.

Try carrying 400 extra pounds while you do yoga.

People forget what an incredible athletic achievement it is to move hundreds of pounds. Try it sometime and you will see that you either cannot do it, or you will hurt yourself, or it will exhaust you in minutes.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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31-03-2017, 08:25 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(31-03-2017 08:17 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 08:07 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I agree, I think there's a nice way to offer help though. For example:

"I'm going to do some yoga, do you want to do some with me?"

"I hate seeing you in pain, if there's anything I can do to help, let me know."

I think there's a fine line though and imo, asking once is sufficient. I don't think you should keep pestering someone because like you say in your post, they're adults, they did not ask for advice, and its their body.

You can't ask a 600 pound person to do yoga.

Try carrying 400 extra pounds while you do yoga.

People forget what an incredible athletic achievement it is to move hundreds of pounds. Try it sometime and you will see that you either cannot do it, or you will hurt yourself, or it will exhaust you in minutes.

There's chair yoga, which is actually recommended for people with limited ranges of motion. I have a client who falls into the morbidly obese category and she is able to do that. Granted, everyone's situation and physical capabilities are different.
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31-03-2017, 09:17 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(31-03-2017 08:25 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 08:17 AM)Dom Wrote:  You can't ask a 600 pound person to do yoga.

Try carrying 400 extra pounds while you do yoga.

People forget what an incredible athletic achievement it is to move hundreds of pounds. Try it sometime and you will see that you either cannot do it, or you will hurt yourself, or it will exhaust you in minutes.

There's chair yoga, which is actually recommended for people with limited ranges of motion. I have a client who falls into the morbidly obese category and she is able to do that. Granted, everyone's situation and physical capabilities are different.


That's different, she came to you for lessons.

I think that my friend would be insulted by your assumption that he doesn't know himself whether he needs to or can move.

Let him/her start the conversation if and when they feel they can trust you. All anyone ever does is nag at them and discount their own desire to do things. Yes, it's nagging to them, no matter how you dress it up.

It's patronizing, not helpful. What is helpful is just being a friend, actual acceptance.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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31-03-2017, 09:51 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(31-03-2017 09:17 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 08:25 AM)jennybee Wrote:  There's chair yoga, which is actually recommended for people with limited ranges of motion. I have a client who falls into the morbidly obese category and she is able to do that. Granted, everyone's situation and physical capabilities are different.


That's different, she came to you for lessons.

I think that my friend would be insulted by your assumption that he doesn't know himself whether he needs to or can move.

Let him/her start the conversation if and when they feel they can trust you. All anyone ever does is nag at them and discount their own desire to do things. Yes, it's nagging to them, no matter how you dress it up.

It's patronizing, not helpful. What is helpful is just being a friend, actual acceptance.

Patronizing is a good way to put it.
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31-03-2017, 10:01 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
My opinion as a professional fatman is that it has little to do with discipline and exercise and everything to do with hormones. Ghrelin and leptin control appetite and testosterone and estrogen control body mass composition. I was up to 280 lbs at 5'11" when I first started testosterone, down to 198 now without any exercise other than an occasional "Grog lift big rock off ground". All fat men should get their testosterone measured and supplement if low. (There is some talk about making T an adjunct therapy for fat Type 2 diabetics.) With women, the problem can often be traced to the thyroid so check the TSH. As far as appetite suppression, despite the fact that we think of fat as satiating it seems that it does not suppress ghrelin as effectively as complex carbs and protein. (This explains why I can eat a McDonalds large fries and MacDaddyMac and still want another one even though I just ate like 2000 calories.) Many fat people have high levels of leptin which should suppress ghrelin but doesn't work properly in leptin-resisitant fat people. Leptin supplementation doesn't seem to take in fat people.

Fat people do have an advantage that I used regularly to drop pounds and still practice for its life extension properties. Fat people (at least this one) can go a long time between feedings. This provides the opportunity to implement intermittent fasting which done properly not only stimulates metabolism but also mimics the life extension properties of calorie restriction. I still typically eat only once a day and I don't really get hungry anymore. Sometimes I only eat every other day and still only eat one meal (as much of whatever I want, fortunately I am now food-smart and other than my MacDaddyMac weekly cheat meal, I don't seem to want fatty or starchy foods, lost all taste for sugar and sweets and even fruit juice after about 3 weeks in.) Sometimes I have to remind myself to eat because after 3 or 4 days of fasting the beneficial metabolic effects literally turn on you and you start eating your muscles instead of fat 'cause the body goes into starvation panic mode. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Finally, it is certainly possible to be both fat and fit as evidenced by big fatass professional athletes both men and women.

#sigh
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