Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
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01-04-2017, 06:21 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
Oh.... One more thing. You mention getting up in the morning and feeling worse than you did the night before. I suffer from that all the time. I think that is just part of the aging process (for me anyway). It takes me a good 30 mins to get going along with a couple cups of coffee.

And I brought up in the first post about people driving around the parking lot waiting until they can get the closest parking spot so they don't have to walk. I'm generalizing here but "most" can walk just fine but they are just too fucking lazy to do so. So they get on one of the 30 motorized carts and ride around the store rather than push a basket. ANYTHING you do that gets you off your feet and moving will help (without an underlying condition). They are just too lazy to do so. I live in the South so I suppose I see it more often than other places?

I get to decide what my life looks like, not the other way around.
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01-04-2017, 06:25 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(01-04-2017 06:21 AM)RearViewMirror Wrote:  Oh.... One more thing. You mention getting up in the morning and feeling worse than you did the night before. I suffer from that all the time. I think that is just part of the aging process (for me anyway). It takes me a good 30 mins to get going along with a couple cups of coffee.

And I brought up in the first post about people driving around the parking lot waiting until they can get the closest parking spot so they don't have to walk. I'm generalizing here but "most" can walk just fine but they are just too fucking lazy to do so. So they get on one of the 30 motorized carts and ride around the store rather than push a basket. ANYTHING you do that gets you off your feet and moving will help (without an underlying condition). They are just too lazy to do so. I live in the South so I suppose I see it more often than other places?

A bit judgy, aren't we? You have no idea what another person's body feels like. What you do know - because you are not them, is that it doesn't feel like yours.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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01-04-2017, 07:19 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(01-04-2017 01:22 AM)RearViewMirror Wrote:  I may catch some flack for this but I have very little pity for people that are morbidly obese. I'm talking 500-600 lbs obese. I agree with genetics playing a part in people that have trouble losing weight but in reality it is very simple to lose weight. DO NOT TAKE IN MORE CALORIES THAN YOU BURN. Simple as that. If you take in more calories and do not burn them off they will over time make you gain weight.

Now that said... there are diseases out there that cause obesity and they need special treatment. But being a Paramedic I see all too often the cause of obesity and "most" of the time it's not medical. Obesity is one of the worst offenders of increased healthcare premiums and health problems and we pay the price for someone else's gluttony. I see people every day driving around the parking lot looking for a place to park close so they can get on the first motorized cart that can haul their 400lb ass around the store. Maybe... just maybe if you got up and actually walked and performed just a little bit of exercise and not run straight to the frozen food aisle to pick up that jumbo pack of frozen fish sticks they might lose some weight.

Again, I'm not singling out anyone on here for struggling with weight issues. I'm lucky and have maintained 175-180lbs all my life. But I eat right and eat proportionately. There are issues that cause obesity that must be handled medically. The vast majority do not. They need self control. It takes 3000 calories to make 1lb of fat. Take in 3000 calories less per week and you will lose weight. Simple as that.

If someone has no underlying medical condition that causes them to be obese I have no sympathy

I have come to the conclusion that obesity is just as much a psychological issue as it is a physical one. Granted this is based on observing exactly one person for 50 years.

Couple genetics with depression, lack of sleep, lack of self control and emotional instability and it becomes an explosive cocktail.

I no longer have that guttural negative reaction I used to have many years ago when I see obese people now. All I think is, There, but for the grace of dog go I.

I have been in my brother’s company in public when I have seen and heard some of the cruelest comments and nastiest looks I’ve ever heard uttered or given by complete strangers. Going out for him was an exercise in masochism. It would not surprise me if this negativity in response to his obesity fed into his self-perception and exacerbated his condition, a sort of, “I’m going to eat whatever the hell I want and fuck you all” response.

IMO obesity is more complicated than simply deciding I’m going to eat a salad today and skip dessert.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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01-04-2017, 07:50 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(01-04-2017 07:19 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 01:22 AM)RearViewMirror Wrote:  I may catch some flack for this but I have very little pity for people that are morbidly obese. I'm talking 500-600 lbs obese. I agree with genetics playing a part in people that have trouble losing weight but in reality it is very simple to lose weight. DO NOT TAKE IN MORE CALORIES THAN YOU BURN. Simple as that. If you take in more calories and do not burn them off they will over time make you gain weight.

Now that said... there are diseases out there that cause obesity and they need special treatment. But being a Paramedic I see all too often the cause of obesity and "most" of the time it's not medical. Obesity is one of the worst offenders of increased healthcare premiums and health problems and we pay the price for someone else's gluttony. I see people every day driving around the parking lot looking for a place to park close so they can get on the first motorized cart that can haul their 400lb ass around the store. Maybe... just maybe if you got up and actually walked and performed just a little bit of exercise and not run straight to the frozen food aisle to pick up that jumbo pack of frozen fish sticks they might lose some weight.

Again, I'm not singling out anyone on here for struggling with weight issues. I'm lucky and have maintained 175-180lbs all my life. But I eat right and eat proportionately. There are issues that cause obesity that must be handled medically. The vast majority do not. They need self control. It takes 3000 calories to make 1lb of fat. Take in 3000 calories less per week and you will lose weight. Simple as that.

If someone has no underlying medical condition that causes them to be obese I have no sympathy

I have come to the conclusion that obesity is just as much a psychological issue as it is a physical one. Granted this is based on observing exactly one person for 50 years.

Couple genetics with depression, lack of sleep, lack of self control and emotional instability and it becomes an explosive cocktail.

I no longer have that guttural negative reaction I used to have many years ago when I see obese people now. All I think is, There, but for the grace of dog go I.

I have been in my brother’s company in public when I have seen and heard some of the cruelest comments and nastiest looks I’ve ever heard uttered or given by complete strangers. Going out for him was an exercise in masochism. It would not surprise me if this negativity in response to his obesity fed into his self-perception and exacerbated his condition, a sort of, “I’m going to eat whatever the hell I want and fuck you all” response.

IMO obesity is more complicated than simply deciding I’m going to eat a salad today and skip dessert.

If there was only one cause that applied to all, we would have long fixed it.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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01-04-2017, 09:03 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(01-04-2017 07:50 AM)Dom Wrote:  If there was only one cause that applied to all, we would have long fixed it.

As I noted in my original post I knew I would get some flack over my response. No... I do not know everyone's circumstances. There is no way I could. But what I do know (working in the medical profession and a peer fitness trainer) is that in the absence of an underlying medical condition it is left to the individual to take responsibility for their actions. Diets (for the most part don't work). Portion control does. Again... It's not what you eat, it's how much you eat. If you burn more calories than you take in you will lose weight. There is no argument there. That is just a fact. Sounds simple in theory but in reality it is very hard to implement for some people. Again... I am not condemning anyone as I wish everyone for a happy healthy life. But speaking from experience I can tell you that the majority of runs that I make are not because of some form of underlying medical / mental condition. Sure they are out there but not as much as you would like to believe.

If you want to lose weight then go for it. Commit to it. I did when I started packing on a few pounds after my crash. If you have no underlying medical condition keeping you from doing just that then I have given an option. If those chose not to do it then that is on them. I will freely admit it is a struggle (especially the older you get) but it isn't unattainable.

I wish all that hope to accomplish this goal great success. Believe me. It can be done.

I get to decide what my life looks like, not the other way around.
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01-04-2017, 10:06 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(01-04-2017 06:10 AM)RearViewMirror Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 02:17 AM)JesseB Wrote:  Try not to take this the wrong way, but my fat ass could prolly outrun your skinny ass Tongue I might need you to take me to the hospital after lol but pretty much your calorie intake and output stuff sounds right, but in practical terms isn't. I'm fairly certain I've lived a highly active lifestyle, from 20 mile hikes to practically living in a Taekwondo dojo, to literally dodging bullets, to huffing around 1,000 lb pipes in the oil fields. Just how much food do you think I was fucking eating to have more calories come in than go out, when I was working a 72 hour shift on an oil rig without the ability to leave for food in the 114 f degree weather in California? (did you know that on hot days in the summer in California through the night the temperature doesn't drop below 80 f I do, I've put in plenty of over night work in the oil fields, imagine when its 4 am and 80 degrees f what its gonna be like at noon the same day).

I know what you're saying makes a certain amount of sense. But I also know from practical application it's kinda bullshit. I have to practically starve myself and work absurdly hard to keep the weight off, frankly I know what needs to be done to do it, but I'm physically no longer capable of doing so. Try waking up every morning in more pain than when you wen't to bed the night before. Every joint, even your hair follicles hurt, your muscles have a deep ache, sometimes weird things happen like your face feels numb, or electricity shocks in various parts of your body. And I'll still fucking race you, lets see what you got. My prediction, I'll win the sprint by far, but you'll win the distance run (though I might hold out long enough to win that too). We can swim laps, you can try and keep up with me dropping fucking trees or rolling pipe on a rig. Lets do this dude.

Now I get you made it clear you're talking about people with no underlying health issues, and I've had this weird pain bullshit ever since I was a kid. It just got so bad I simply couldn't get out quite as much as I used to. I'm still pretty active, I still do tree work, clean peoples houses for money, prostitution (kidding, well I would but who would hire me lol), I know what it takes to loose weight and because of that I simply don't agree that its as straight forward and simple as you think it is.

I also think most of the shit people say on diet, exercise and food choices are things they pulled out of their ass. I've seen very little empirical data given to back up most people's claims. From what I've seen it's far more complex and nuanced than anyone wants to admit.

(01-04-2017 02:50 AM)JesseB Wrote:  Oh and @RearView, I'm not trying to shit on you. Admittedly I spent the entire day tearing my house apart and deep cleaning, so I'm a bit tired and grumpy at the moment. On that note I think I'll get some sleep now. Take care

No offence taken Jesse. And I understand where I could have come across as harsh in my statements.

That said, I do stand by my statements. I work as a Firefighter in the largest city in our state (have for 23yrs now). So some of the things you describe I've been through. Throw on 90 lbs of gear when it is 115 degrees outside (and that's before you even pick up a tool) and run into a burning building where temps can range from 200 at the floor to well over 1000 at head level. Speaking of... this is why you always see Firefighters crawl into a burning structure. Because 200 degrees feels like a fall breeze compared to the hell that is 5' above you.

As I mentioned, genetics do play a certain role in weight gain. For those people it is harder to keep off but it can be done. One of my friends suffers from just that. It's in his genetic makeup but he has worked his ass off to keep the weight off. He does things that I don't have to do to maintain the same weight. Myself, I raced bikes from the time I was 5 until I finally had a horrible crash at 35. I was sponsored so I had to race. But after that wreck my racing days were over. After I turned 40 I realized that I was starting to gain some weight so I did exactly what I described in the post above. Cut out 3000 calories a week and the weight came off. Now I fluctuate between 175-180 depending on the seasons. I get more stagnate during the winter so therefore I put on about 5lbs.
Weight is a touchy subject I understand. But I fully maintain that if you have no underlying condition then it can be taken off if you so desire. That is one of the reason's I ride my BMX bike everyday and do flatland tricks on it because it is a total body workout. I also still race downhill and cyclocross when the opportunity arises.

[Image: IMG_0502_zpsa04eja8u.jpg]

[Image: 20140809_113845_zpsedd78b10.jpeg]

[Image: 20140802_193707_RichtoneHDR1_zpsb05f23b5.jpg]


So if you truly want to lose weight I say that it can be done (without underlying medical conditions). It's just in how bad you want to lose that weight.

Oh... and if you want to know what real heat feels like... This happens when the temps get over 1000 degrees. The leather patch doesn't do that until it hits above 1000 degrees and the bork shields don't melt very often. That happened with both on this fire.

[Image: Helmet%201_zpsvyvwjbwq.jpg]

I ride a mountain bike or walk everywhere as I don't currently have a car. That's a nice bike you got there.

I'm well aware I have medical conditions, and I agree with you to an extent, but I don't think that's all there is to it. How do I put it.... When I was a kid my brothers and I had the exact same diet. We weren't allowed to eat anything that wasn't prepared for us. My parents are obsessive about food and working out. The only time my dad wasn't trying to kill me was when he was watching me try to kill myself in the gym. Despite my being more physically active than either of my brothers, the middle brother was by far the skinniest he's still under 100lb and he's only a year younger than I, and the youngest weighed the most. Now the youngest weighs less than me, he's still, whats the word stalky? but he's not like fat.... If that makes sense. Me I'm just fat, but I also couldn't be more active if I tried anymore. There's a lot of things I should have never done, too many injuries ect. (I was never a pro athlete like you, but I got a few football injuries and far more on the job injuries).

Despite both my brothers weighing less than me, neither could come close to keeping up with me in any physical activity if I decide to push myself. And that was kinda my point. I'm not some fat ass that's never moved a muscle stuffing my face. And I couldn't tell just by looking at someone how active they've been regardless of weight. Most of the guys I know out working on trees anymore are pretty heavy like me, and they work hard. Sure diet plays a big role, but its not the whole story, which was the point.

Back in my earlier message, I said I get annoyed with people who pretend like I don't try. Act like its such a simple thing. Add to that being tired and grumpy, Like I said I wasn't trying to shit on you. Just trying to say i don't think its that simple, so I don't judge people without medical conditions quite as harshly, personally anyway.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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01-04-2017, 10:10 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(01-04-2017 09:03 AM)RearViewMirror Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 07:50 AM)Dom Wrote:  If there was only one cause that applied to all, we would have long fixed it.

As I noted in my original post I knew I would get some flack over my response. No... I do not know everyone's circumstances. There is no way I could. But what I do know (working in the medical profession and a peer fitness trainer) is that in the absence of an underlying medical condition it is left to the individual to take responsibility for their actions. Diets (for the most part don't work). Portion control does. Again... It's not what you eat, it's how much you eat. If you burn more calories than you take in you will lose weight. There is no argument there. That is just a fact. Sounds simple in theory but in reality it is very hard to implement for some people. Again... I am not condemning anyone as I wish everyone for a happy healthy life. But speaking from experience I can tell you that the majority of runs that I make are not because of some form of underlying medical / mental condition. Sure they are out there but not as much as you would like to believe.

If you want to lose weight then go for it. Commit to it. I did when I started packing on a few pounds after my crash. If you have no underlying medical condition keeping you from doing just that then I have given an option. If those chose not to do it then that is on them. I will freely admit it is a struggle (especially the older you get) but it isn't unattainable.

I wish all that hope to accomplish this goal great success. Believe me. It can be done.

I'll agree with you, peoples choices have consequences. Personal responsibility is an important thing people should keep in mind as they live their lives. I think the topic over all is more complex than you frame it, but I don't think you're completely wrong in anything you've said. I just think there's more to it.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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01-04-2017, 10:24 AM (This post was last modified: 01-04-2017 10:30 AM by JesseB.)
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(01-04-2017 06:21 AM)RearViewMirror Wrote:  Oh.... One more thing. You mention getting up in the morning and feeling worse than you did the night before. I suffer from that all the time. I think that is just part of the aging process (for me anyway). It takes me a good 30 mins to get going along with a couple cups of coffee.

And I brought up in the first post about people driving around the parking lot waiting until they can get the closest parking spot so they don't have to walk. I'm generalizing here but "most" can walk just fine but they are just too fucking lazy to do so. So they get on one of the 30 motorized carts and ride around the store rather than push a basket. ANYTHING you do that gets you off your feet and moving will help (without an underlying condition). They are just too lazy to do so. I live in the South so I suppose I see it more often than other places?

Aging has nothing to do with that, when I was very young I'd stand on one leg in the shower, then switch legs I did this because my feet would hurt so bad just standing in the shower. Back then I was skinny under 100 lb's very active. For a long time I had chronic insomnia wandering the house while everyone slept, then I'd pass out on the stairs usually, wake up right before everyone else, and either relocate to my bed before they woke up, or just got dressed, fed, then go sit in the car and nap till everyone else arrived (I would do this cause I hated the banging, loud noises, and my brothers coming in to turn the lights on and off). I've always had pain, to be honest I didn't understand that it wasn't normal. I've always woken up every morning feeling miserable, regardless of how long or short I sleep. I've found that 6 hours of sleep is best for me, if I sleep longer than 6 hours I get migraines if I sleep less than 6 hours I feel like a zombie. I remember when I was little going so many days without sleep I'd end up crying till morning, all I wanted was some sleep. When I was young I just tried to ignore it, live my life. Pain pills don't do shit, doctors don't know what's wrong and they don't care. So I just live my life.

(Edit^ Back then, on nights I couldn't sleep. I'd wander the house and imagine everyone in the world was dead, that their beds were coffins, and I was the only person left in the world. I still like being awake at night better than during the day, I still imagine that when I'm up all night. It makes the world far more peaceful, it's very relaxing to me for some reason)

I do kinda have a fuck you to everyone kinda attitude anymore, but like the other day I was at a community fund raiser dinner, one of my clients stole the cookies off my plate and said "You can't have these" Later she said she was joking and tried to give them back. I responded with "Naw you can take them anytime, I"m not offended. I don't need those, and I don't want those." I don't eat sweets, I do eat lots of veggies. Currently I eat too much bread cause its cheap and easy to come by, and is better than eating nothing for weeks on end. That's the most annoying part, I eat NOTHING and still can't loose weight.... Like at least I could be skinny for all the meals I miss.... /sigh

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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01-04-2017, 10:35 AM (This post was last modified: 01-04-2017 10:47 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(01-04-2017 10:24 AM)JesseB Wrote:  That's the most annoying part, I eat NOTHING and still can't loose weight.... Like at least I could be skinny for all the meals I miss.... /sigh

Have you had labwork done to rule out underlying medical conditions? Thyroid? Testosterone? Diabetes?

This is my favorite fat person. I like her attitude. Actually your stature is such that you could make for a good weightlifter.









That's 50 lbs more than Girly weighs. Shocking

#sigh
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01-04-2017, 10:52 AM
RE: Body Acceptance and the Morbidly Obese
(01-04-2017 10:35 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 10:24 AM)JesseB Wrote:  That's the most annoying part, I eat NOTHING and still can't loose weight.... Like at least I could be skinny for all the meals I miss.... /sigh

Have you had labwork done to rule out underlying medical conditions? Thyroid? Testosterone? Diabetes?

This is my favorite fat person. I like her attitude. Actually your stature is such that you could make for a good weightlifter.









That's 30 lbs more than Girly weighs. Shocking

I got diabetes about 3ish years ago, I was tested often before then cause doctors just assumed I was diabetic.

I was tested for testosterone and they found I have almost no testosterone, apparently I never have had much. I took the shots for a while and hated it. That was back when I was 18 i think?

Another odd thing is I never eat bananas or any food high in potassium because it'll cause severe stomach pain, I've also never been low on potassium. My mom was put in the hospital once for low potassium so I know what the symptoms are ect Had a doctor once tell me my body prolly produces enough potassium on its own so if I eat it i overdose which causes the pain.

Thyroid tests came out ok, but I know there's some thyroid tests they don't bother to run so there might be something there they never found.

Other than that doctors have little interest in helping, those tests were all run during the times I had really good jobs and expensive insurance, so they didn't mind running them. Mostly they don't care. If I try to go to the doctor on medical they aren't going to give a fuck, they'll just tell me to piss off (in the politest way they know how).

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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