Bohdan2's collected concerns about NDEs and Out of Body Experiences?
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24-01-2017, 10:25 PM
RE: Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?
No, I don't believe a word of it. I know that the brain is capable of vivid hallucinations, and I think life after death is impossible.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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24-01-2017, 10:50 PM
Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
I wanted to know what you think about OBEs. There have been a few cases that seem difficult to debunk.
Dr. Peter Fenwick has delt with thousands of OBEs in Near Death and says that patients sometimes have been able to "float" to another room and get information of what other people behind closed doors said. Then, they verify it.
One man was floating above his body, found a baby crying in another room. He was apparently able to talk to the baby, found out the baby had a broken arm. Then, when he was revived, he checked with doctors, and it turned out the baby's limb was broken.
Here is a video which claims there is life after death:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeM4m_4dWeA

How can so many people accurately describe what occurs when they have a dying brain or a brain that is dead? It seems like a poorly functioning brain cannot do this. Do you think that these examples I provide, albeit anecdotal, potentially prove a soul exists?
How did Dr. Fenwick find so many cases if they are just coincidences?
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24-01-2017, 10:57 PM
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
No one has to debunk OBEs.
Like any claim, the OBEs need to be proven else why believe that they happen?
There does not seem to be an effective way to test the existence of OBEs.

Even if OBEs are actually a thing, what would they have to do with atheism/theism?
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24-01-2017, 11:00 PM
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
albeit anecdotal. Therein lies the rub.
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24-01-2017, 11:05 PM
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
All the details you need on Fenwick's various claims and the anecdotes he promotes:

https://infidels.org/library/modern/keit...HNDEs.html

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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24-01-2017, 11:08 PM
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
That people can detail what has been happening around them while under the effects of trauma some how "Can't be explained" there fore...

Okay, hers a possible explanation from a complete blue collar worker/layman.

The brain is active pretty much all the time.

There's no 'You only use 5% of your brain" rubbish going on.

When either awake or a sleep everything is working. Senses, thinking etc. It's all just doing different things.

Now, one of the things the brain does all the time is make simulations of what it 'thinks' is happening in the world around it. It's part of how our spacial orientation/motor control works.

When you pick up a cup, lots of things are happening within the brain to get all that coordination happening.

There's the visual/audio etc ques the brain takes in about how reality 'is'.

There's an internal model (That we're not consciously aware of) that the brain is 'simulating' the space and the actions to come in.

Then there's all the neurological activity that's the messy process of everything 'happening' as the system 'thinks' about it.

So, taking the above information on board, a person has trauma. They're not 'conscious'. The brain's still working (Albeit at reduced capacity possibly due to the induced trauma) but it's still 'thinking'.

The brain is still working on its spacial models. Still interpreting incoming information based on what is has seen, what it is still hearing/feeling etc.

Because the wiring/thinking bits have been under trauma/haven't been working 'properly'. Information might have been 'crossed' over. Dreaming memories might been mistaken for 'awake' memories etc.

Just because the person was not conscious at the time that the event doesn't mean that the 'recording' parts of their brain weren't still chugging along 'memorizing' everything that was happening.

After they recover... they find they have 'memories' of things they weren't conscious for. So what? Perhaps they are accessing memories that their 'sleeping' part of the system put in the wrong spot due to the trauma?

Note: Please show evidence of ever a completely corpus brain ever being alive again.

Even a 'poorly' functioning brain is still functioning.

Again, please provide evidence of a completely 'dead' brain... not being dead any more.

There's a complete world of difference between 'Near Death Experience' and 'Completely dead and then non dead'.

Hope that ramble helps some. I'm sure some one far more knowledge able than myself will be along shortly to help you out with your question.
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24-01-2017, 11:11 PM
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
The Rational Channel on YouTube has a video called the Science of Near Death Experiences. They also discuss OBE's. Definitely worth a watch. And yeah, there's no magic needed to explain these things. Wink
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24-01-2017, 11:13 PM
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
Geez, these NDE and OBE's questions are getting to be every other day now.

Out of body experiences can be induced by the centrifuge machines that spin astronauts and pilots around at high speeds to train them for the G forces for lift off and such. NDE's and OBE are a very common experience for them. Astronauts tell stories of being outside of their body and walking behind themselves down hallways, etc.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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24-01-2017, 11:14 PM
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
(24-01-2017 11:05 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  All the details you need on Fenwick's various claims and the anecdotes he promotes:

https://infidels.org/library/modern/keit...HNDEs.html

Interesting. I guess you could say that Fenwick is still slightly biased, because he obviously wants there to be an afterlife, so he seems to brush aside his failed results.
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24-01-2017, 11:18 PM
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
NDE happen when people are dying or almost dead. This most often means that the brain is being deprived of sufficient oxygen, and they're often being medicated at the time.

Until a time as there is sufficient evidence (personal anecdotes are not evidence) to make a supernatural explanation more probable than a brain reacting to insufficient oxygen and drugs, NDE's are and will remain bunk.

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