Bohdan2's collected concerns about NDEs and Out of Body Experiences?
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25-01-2017, 06:48 AM
RE: Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?
See my comment from a previous thread on the subject:

(02-09-2012 04:11 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  I love how they overemphasize the fact that Howard Storm was an atheist professor who became a Christian. I get the distinct impression that the show does this because they want the audience to think Storm is a highly trained biologist or physicist who is now applying his skills to scientifically prove near death experiences--i.e., his opinion should be trusted. (Actually, my suspicions have been confirmed by the video comments on youtube. One person wrote: “MOST PHYSICISTS ARE ARROGANT BULLIES BUT THIS GUY IS AMAZING. GOD BLESS YOU MAN. I WILL PRAY FOR ALL ATHEISTS.”) However, he is not a scientist of any kind; he was a professor of art at Northern Kentucky University back in the 80s. Knowing that makes the statement "atheist professor becomes a Christian" just as meaningless as “atheist plumber becomes a Christian.” I’m not saying art professors (or plumbers) are stupid; it’s just their expert opinion only carries weight in particular situations. This is NOT one of them. The fact that he goes on to insult people makes the matter worse. He is in no way qualified to berate people in a subject, in this case neurobiology, that he himself has no experience in. This means his statement, “You don’t know what you don’t know,” can be used against him.
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25-01-2017, 07:03 AM
RE: Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?
What Pablo said, but here, let me ground it in song.




“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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25-01-2017, 08:02 AM
RE: Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?
That's one way to pay his medical bills. Anyone living in this century knows that there's a robust market for anyone willing to tell a dramatic conversion story.

I think at most, his brain made some pretty pictures, informed by his culture and training--n art guy is going to have studied paintings of heaven and hell--and he decided to make a buck.
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25-01-2017, 08:40 AM
RE: Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?
(25-01-2017 06:05 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  When I hear "used to be an atheist" I hear - someone decided Christians were an easy way to make money from, so they made up some bullshit story that Christians like to hear so they could sell books and DVD's to them.
Or, equally possible, some Christian is embellishing their backstory to be sexier and more dramatic. Nothing sells to fundamentalists better than the Christian version of a rags-to-riches story: a redemption/salvation narrative, where someone who is now a champion of the gospel was once as depraved and miserable a character as can be imagined, in contrast to their current virtuous self. When I was growing up in the 1960s this was typically a drug addict, gang member or both (think: The Cross and the Switchblade). I am actually encouraged that this stereotypical character has now morphed into an atheist, because it tells me that fundamentalists now see freethinkers as a bigger threat, a more Hated Other, than those odd-colored miscreants in the mysterious Inner City.
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25-01-2017, 10:04 AM
RE: Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?
Only 80 primary colours?
Pffft... obviously this guy's never been inside a Benjamin Moore's

Your faith is not evidence, your opinion is not fact, and your bias is not wisdom
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25-01-2017, 10:07 AM
RE: Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?



Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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25-01-2017, 10:21 AM
RE: Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?
Bohdan, I've noticed that you are cross-posting topics like this at Atheist Forums as well, and possibly at other sites.

What do you want from us? Do you need us to hold your hand and tell you it's okay to believe in whatever stupid thing someone tells you about the afterlife? Not going to do that. Do you want us to believe these ridiculous stories, just because? Not going to do that either.

We can help you with discarding unsubstantiated nonsense, if that's what you want. We are not going to uncritically believe in life after death just because someone wrote a story about it.

Tell us why you're here, please, and specifically why you are seeking out the opinions of non-believers.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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25-01-2017, 10:43 AM
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
(24-01-2017 10:50 PM)Bohdan2 Wrote:  How can so many people accurately describe what occurs when they have a dying brain or a brain that is dead? It seems like a poorly functioning brain cannot do this.
You need to educate yourself about the degree to which even healthy brains can, under certain conditions (and in some people more readily than others) produce very realistic hallucinations, lucid dreams, and the like.

The human brain is far less reliable and stable than we like to think it is. It routinely produces subjectively compelling and realistic perceptions that do not reflect actual reality. That's why we have the scientific method, to guard against misperception, rampant confirmation bias, wishful thinking, overdetermined pattern matching and agency inference that the brain routinely engages in.

The common features of NDEs*, which are, by the way, often paid attention to while ignoring the differences between NDEs, can be readily explained by culturally mediated expectations. Not the least of which, is the simple fact that for some 50 years now the public has been widely aware of what NDEs are "supposed" to consist of. The well has been poisoned; it's like trying to find an objective juror for a murder trial in which the crime was witnessed on national television.

* Note, NDE = NEAR death experience, not "death experience". They are evidence for what happens when you are in a serious medical situation, not when you are dead. No one returns from the dead.
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25-01-2017, 10:48 AM
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
As Bart Ehrman said once in talking about "miracles", whatever the explanation for an event, the VERY LAST, and LEAST probable explanation for an event, is that it is a "miracle".

If Jesus can pull off NDE's as miracles, then why can't he cure the 5 year old I saw yesterday, dying of leukemia ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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25-01-2017, 01:04 PM
RE: Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?
I've heard this man's story before and no I don't believe it just like I don't believe in every alien abduction or ghost haunting story.

Also there is no real reason at all to believe that Jesus or God would go out of their way to impact the mind or life of anyone much less an atheist out of nowhere but if they did they basically mind wiped this guy of any of the reasons he had to be an atheist and he's just a brain washed cult member now so I'd rather not believe it.

If it were true how many other people were being sent to Hell and called out for help and didn't get any? So that means cries for help are ignored and that's pretty fucking evil. Even if they specifically asked for Jesus and then they were helped, whyl? If that's the case than Hell must be empty since Jesus is always saving them but we can all wait until we are in Hell to call out for Jesus and there would be no need to believe in him in this life.

If the purpose was to spread his story so others could believe why doesn't Jesus regularly visit humans in their dreams to let us know he's real, why send this one guy? We will only really trust our own experiences so we should all get a Jesus vision if he cares to truly save us all. He doesn't do that so he either doesn't care or can't or wants certain people to go to Hell, all great reasons to reject him.

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