Bohdan2's collected concerns about NDEs and Out of Body Experiences?
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26-01-2017, 08:42 AM
RE: Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?
I believe NDE happen in much the same way dreams happen when we fall asleep. The mechanisms in the brain that causes both are probably very different or they could be very similar. I truly don't know.

But what I do know is that we experience life within our brains. Whatever he experienced while he was unconscious, it happened in his brain.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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31-01-2017, 09:36 PM
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
(24-01-2017 10:50 PM)Bohdan2 Wrote:  Do you think that these examples I provide, albeit anecdotal, potentially prove a soul exists?

No. They prove nothing.

You have made a choice, at the exclusion of all other possibilities, to advance what you consider to be a possibility based solely upon religious tenants. You have chosen "soul" as the most likely possibility, without providing any evidence of said existence. Your position indicates a measure of confirmation bias.

Meanwhile, evidence exists from numerous other medical records which support a more plausible explanation(s).

Insofar, the answer is unknown. However, what is known is that there is no evidence to support the existence of a soul.
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01-02-2017, 05:47 AM (This post was last modified: 01-02-2017 12:39 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
(24-01-2017 10:50 PM)Bohdan2 Wrote:  I wanted to know what you think about OBEs.

I enjoy them. Why do you ask?

#sigh
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01-02-2017, 12:35 PM
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
I don't see any particular value in OBEs or NDEs. They're subjective, unverifiable and make no testable predictions. Filing under "silly woo-woo that I can't use for squat."

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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01-02-2017, 02:38 PM
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
(24-01-2017 10:50 PM)Bohdan2 Wrote:  I wanted to know what you think about OBEs. There have been a few cases that seem difficult to debunk.
...
How can so many people accurately describe what occurs when they have a dying brain or a brain that is dead? It seems like a poorly functioning brain cannot do this. Do you think that these examples I provide, albeit anecdotal, potentially prove a soul exists?
How did Dr. Fenwick find so many cases if they are just coincidences?

I'll bite.

Yes, we have a soul. It's a mortal soul and it's made from a few million moist robots.

I watched the linked vid and was pleased to see the Brit being sceptical and the other guy being the unreasoner. National pride FTW.

I've been giving consciousness a lot of thought recently in my quest to diagramise evolved morality. Here's what I think is going on:

Based on HoC's hypothesis about the three simulators (self, other and future) and going back to the dawn of time to look for the fundamental principles of life, I'm seeing evolution of the mind as selective (naturally selected) upgrades of software.

There's a baseline and there's event detection and environmental monitoring software. I've mapped out a tentative path for the evolution of these things back to prokaryotic cells and have a germ of a hypothesis to take it back further to Earth's early chemistry.

The baseline relates to memory and is an organism's 'normal', e.g. homeostasis, and in humans this has evolved to become a virtual model of reality (HoC's simulators). This is all about balance / equilibrium.

The event detection and environmental monitoring software require sensors (physical senses and I'm hypothesising moral sense too) ... internal and external. This is all about risk proximity and in the case of e.g. empathy, also affinity.

Note that our event detection software is still operational even when we are asleep (otherwise alarm clocks wouldn't work) even though our energy-draining high-alert consciousness has been placed on stand-by (temporarily unavailable i.e. down-time).

And I think that a lot of this relates to the definition of 'death'.

Cutting to the chase...

An Out-Of-Body Experience could well be this:

The communication between the different simulators has become confused. My guess is that it's a Capacity issue.
(Capacity in the sense of Performance / Response Times / Utilisation, as opposed to Availability which relates to Resilience / Up-time / Reliability / Maintainability)

I've had moments in class when I'm on auto-pilot with a witty (says me) anecdote to exemplify a point and a soundless voice from within says "hey, why not mention... etc." so I do. Then another soundless voice says "careful, you're going to forget the original point of the story" and yet another soundless voice says "you can feel that thought slipping away, can't you. Don't let it go.". Then I hear my visible self say, "And now I've forgotten where I was going with that".

I have also had moments of intense concentration when I feel like I'm watching myself... like my mind has stepped back and is passively watching my hands move at twice normal speed. Kinda like some of me is in slow motion and some of me is on fast-forward.
I'm guessing anyone who mastered the big-grid version of Minesweeper in under 50 secs might have felt the same thing. Or anyone who has had a good (or bad) trip for that matter.

This is an In-Body Experience. But I think it's possibly one of two things:
a) 1 x self + 1 x other:
The virtual model of 'self' has become cross-wired with the virtual model of 'other' or
b) 2 x self:
The virtual model of 'self' has become replicated i.e. there is a simultaneity between read and write (write to memory and read from memory)
(which btw, is what I think is happening when we have a déjà vu) or
c) damn! I've forgotten what c) was. Laughat

So an NDE OBE could well be:
When a human is declared dead it's when the vital processes have stopped (in cells or tissue).

Near Death implies that those vital processes have not stopped permanently.

The high level Apps (virtual machines i.e. our simulators) have stopped but our lower level operating system (digestion, immune system etc.) is still working as are our equilibrium and proximity detectors.

During the near death event, this data is not being processed, just collected.

This picture describes the process for a semi-biological system (a service) and what's happening in humans is that our body has stopped at #3.

[Image: CSI+Seven-Step+Improvement+Process.jpg]

I don't find it hard to imagine that the sound of a crying baby (audio data) might have been detected.
I also think we have the ability to discern different distress signals (most animals can do that)... we know what it sounds like when someone has broken a bone.

After we have recovered, the jumble of data is retrospectively mapped to our 'self' and/or 'other' virtual models (the simulators) i.e. we pick up at #4.

A rational mind (self-simulator) will say, "Oh boy, that was weird".
A self-simulator infected by a religious meme will have 'experienced' god.

A self-simulator who has been to Canada to visit Stark will take some to re-adjust to reality ... like six months of existential angst! But that's another story.

Big Grin

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01-02-2017, 09:39 PM
Atheists, do you believe this article? Does it scare you in any way?
It is about NDEs and how many people who have them see hell.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...y-yes.html
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01-02-2017, 09:42 PM
RE: Atheists, do you believe this article? Does it scare you in any way?
How many threads are you planning to start about NDEs?

You are starting to get a little spammy.

How many times are you going to ask to see if someone buys into your NDE nonsense?

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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01-02-2017, 09:46 PM
RE: Atheists, do you believe this article? Does it scare you in any way?
Your point has been debunked, now you need to stop.




Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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01-02-2017, 09:52 PM
RE: Atheists, do you believe this article? Does it scare you in any way?
(01-02-2017 09:39 PM)Bohdan2 Wrote:  It is about NDEs and how many people who have them see hell.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...y-yes.html

No and no.
Go get help.
You need a therapist.
Seriously.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-02-2017, 10:15 PM
RE: Atheists, do you believe this article? Does it scare you in any way?
The article involves an interview with an author who writes about NDEs, talks about other authors and artists, and describes the experiences of people who reported NDEs.

Yes, I believe the article is sincerely written. However it seems to be written for pop culture entertainment rather than scientific explanation or education.

While I feel sympathy for people who suffer horrific NDE experiences, I do not see any reason to believe those experiences represent the afterlife.

There is no afterlife.

There is only this life.

Stop wasting it.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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