Bohdan2's collected concerns about NDEs and Out of Body Experiences?
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02-02-2017, 02:53 AM
RE: Atheists, do you believe this article? Does it scare you in any way?
(01-02-2017 09:39 PM)Bohdan2 Wrote:  It is about NDEs and how many people who have them see hell.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...y-yes.html

I am 48, the average life span for a male here is ca. 75y. So i am currently pretty much near death, at least compared to my youth.

My experience: You are an idiot
How do you explain this?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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02-02-2017, 03:09 AM
RE: Atheists, do you believe this article? Does it scare you in any way?
(01-02-2017 10:29 PM)Bohdan2 Wrote:  
(01-02-2017 10:22 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Not one thread... not two threads... not three threads....

Four threads!

The magic number I was waiting for was four, so now that there are four threads, I can allow myself to believe in NDEs!! Banana_zorro

I'm asking because I fear hell, not because I want you guys to believe it.

Christian hell I suppose? Maybe you should be worried about displeasing Huitzilopochtli? Or you do not believe in him? If so ask yourself why and use the same method to christian fairy.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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02-02-2017, 03:18 AM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2017 03:25 AM by DLJ.)
RE: Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences?
(01-02-2017 09:42 PM)Anjele Wrote:  ...
How many times are you going to ask to see if someone buys into your NDE nonsense?

Threads merged.

(01-02-2017 10:22 PM)Aliza Wrote:  ...
Not one thread... not two threads... not three threads....

Four threads!
...

... all of them.

"We are here to serve"




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02-02-2017, 06:26 AM
RE: Bohdan2's collected concerns about NDEs and Out of Body Experiences?
(01-02-2017 10:29 PM)Bohdan2 Wrote:  
(01-02-2017 10:22 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Not one thread... not two threads... not three threads....

Four threads!

The magic number I was waiting for was four, so now that there are four threads, I can allow myself to believe in NDEs!! Banana_zorro

I'm asking because I fear hell, not because I want you guys to believe it.

Here's a simple question, where do the players go in Call of Duty after you turn your gaming console off?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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02-02-2017, 06:51 AM
RE: Bohdan2's collected concerns about NDEs and Out of Body Experiences?
(22-01-2017 08:53 PM)Bohdan2 Wrote:  Hello everyone!
I have a Christian friend who sent me a boat load of Near Death Experiences, such as Howard Storm, Kenneth Hagin, Ian McCromick, Don Brubaker, and the list goes on. These can be found of this site:
http://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity.html

I did some research on these NDEs, and it seems as though the internet is filled with Christian NDEs, NDEs associated with no religion, or rarely Hindu NDEs. My question is, so many skeptics say that Near Death Experiences are the product of the brain essentially being deprived of oxygen. Then, Hallucinations may occur. Skeptics always also tend to argue that an NDE has to do with one's religious/cultural upbringing. I am wondering then, why is it that you will never find any 21st century records of any Islamic NDEs? You will find Islamic people who have them and report the typical white light, happiness, or even sometimes hell. However, you will never hear of an Islamic person seeing Muhammad, but many NDEs around the world will have Jesus. Why do you think that is? Finally, do you at all believe in NDEs?
Thanks,
Bohdan

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02-02-2017, 07:57 AM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2017 08:03 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Bohdan2's collected concerns about NDEs and Out of Body Experiences?
(01-02-2017 09:39 PM)Bohdan2 Wrote:  It is about NDEs and how many people who have them see hell.

That's what I saw while laying in a hospital bed for 16 hours with my own NDE from a ruptured appendix waiting for somebody anybody to get me to the fucking OR! Hell is pain. Raw unadulterated untouchable pain. Dilaudid pffft. Demerol pffft. Nothing could come close to touching it. Hell is pain.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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02-02-2017, 11:05 AM
RE: Bohdan2's collected concerns about NDEs and Out of Body Experiences?
(01-02-2017 10:40 PM)Bohdan2 Wrote:  
(01-02-2017 10:33 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Why do you fear hell? Is it because the bible tells you so?

Maybe people here can debunk the scripture that causing that fear.

Honestly, I would have thought that the bible is a load of rubbish. I believe in evolution, I don't believe in the creation story, I have even questioned whether or not Jesus existed. The only thing I can't get past is these NDEs. I was raised in a very Christian home where I used to totally believe everything. Recently, I stopped. However, a Christian friend of mine sent me all these NDEs and links about them. Although there are scientific explanations for most, I don't understand why 1 in 5 people would have a negative NDE. I am surprised by that. I think because I was brainwashed I find this stuff extra scary. I am sorry for posting these questions and I promise I won't post anymore about NDEs. I realize it makes me look dumb, but it is fear more than anything else. I understand that it could be loss of oxygen to the brain, or cultural imagery, I am just surprised by how many people who have these experiences are so changed by them. That is what scares me the most.

Gathering other people's opinions doesn't seem to be doing you much good in terms of calming your fears.

My advice is to open an excel spreadsheet and start tracking the cases of NDE's that you're reading about. Note which ones are positive and which ones are negative. Also note the cultural that the person is coming from and whether or not the NDE they experienced was culturally relevant to them, or if they had an NDE that was from a culture or religion that they had little exposure to.

Take into consideration how many times you have a bad dream, vs how often you have a good dream. Is the ratio in favor of good dreams? Doesn't it make sense that sometimes people just have bad dreams or bad NDE's? What about psychedelic drug experiences. Don't some people occasionally just have a "bad trip?"

Perhaps it's only the awareness of their own passing that causes people to concoct an end-of-life scenario rather than just imagining that they're floating around in a cloud of purple elephants. .... which raises the question, how many people have had an alternate NDE scenario that was not related to death, heaven or hell at all? Would those experiences even be identified as NDE's or would they just be disregarded as crazy dreams?
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02-02-2017, 05:06 PM
RE: Bohdan2's collected concerns about NDEs and Out of Body Experiences?
(02-02-2017 11:05 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Gathering other people's opinions doesn't seem to be doing you much good in terms of calming your fears.

My advice is to open an excel spreadsheet and start tracking the cases of NDE's that you're reading about. Note which ones are positive and which ones are negative. Also note the cultural that the person is coming from and whether or not the NDE they experienced was culturally relevant to them, or if they had an NDE that was from a culture or religion that they had little exposure to.

Take into consideration how many times you have a bad dream, vs how often you have a good dream. Is the ratio in favor of good dreams? Doesn't it make sense that sometimes people just have bad dreams or bad NDE's? What about psychedelic drug experiences. Don't some people occasionally just have a "bad trip?"

Perhaps it's only the awareness of their own passing that causes people to concoct an end-of-life scenario rather than just imagining that they're floating around in a cloud of purple elephants. .... which raises the question, how many people have had an alternate NDE scenario that was not related to death, heaven or hell at all? Would those experiences even be identified as NDE's or would they just be disregarded as crazy dreams?

Your advice is brilliant, as it helps to eliminate personal "confirmation bias", in which we "count the hits and ignore the misses".

In other words, we tend to forget almost immediately when we've had a pleasant night's sleep with no nightmares, 29 nights out of a month, but on days 30 and 31 when we have a couple of nights in a row of bad dreams, we suddenly think it's a trend that has been going on "forever", so to speak.

That's why listening to the personal testimony of others is useless... you can't even begin to tally all the "misses" they're ignoring when they tell you about their "hits". There's absolutely no way to realistically or usefully analyze that data.

The same applies to NDE's. You see an NDE about Hell to be evidence of Hell... but you're ignoring those who just saw a bright light, or those who saw nothing at all, and you're totally ignoring that people who've never heard of Hell never see Hell.

Like bad dreams, the brain makes hash out of various cultural inputs in its memory banks, and puts the pieces together to form a new dream/nightmare. (That's why Freud thought dream analysis might reveal deep truths about a person, by examining those pieces revealed in dreams-- except it turns out to be random, what pieces the brain selects, so it's useless for analysis of personality.) If the pieces aren't there to begin with, they don't get selected; if the NDEs were really evidence of something going on outside the brain, such as an external Heaven or Hell, then we'd expect to see people who've never heard of either to be experiencing those places and then coming back to life to ask "what the heck did I just see?!"

But we don't. Ever. Guess why?

Because Hell is made up. It's not even made up by the Bible... it's not even in the Bible, except as a result of later theology add-ons and bad translations into non-Hebrew/Greek/Latin/Aramaic versions of the Bible.

Hell shouldn't make you frightened. Hell should make you angry that you were programmed with fear by people trying to manipulate you into joining their cult.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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02-02-2017, 05:16 PM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2017 06:23 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Bohdan2's collected concerns about NDEs and Out of Body Experiences?
(01-02-2017 10:29 PM)Bohdan2 Wrote:  I'm asking because I fear hell, not because I want you guys to believe it.

Why aren't we discussing this instead of pussyfooting around the topic with OBEs (which are available to anyone with access to hallucinogens and a sensory deprivation tank) and NDEs (which seem only incidentally related). The psychology of hell is far more fascinating to me. Why did we even think of it in the first place? What purpose did it serve?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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