Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
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21-05-2013, 12:44 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
why fossils? I give you... THE OSTRICH!!

[Image: ostrich_4113.jpg]

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21-05-2013, 01:22 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
Until you read The Blind Watchmaker, or Climbing mount improbable or Why Evolution is True or one of the many other books that have been recommended for you, this is useless. Your latest request for an example demonstrates your utter lack of knowledge on the subject. You were the one who asked for book recommendations now do the decent thing and read some of them instead of demonstrating intellectual laziness and dishonesty.
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21-05-2013, 01:41 PM (This post was last modified: 21-05-2013 01:46 PM by kim.)
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
(21-05-2013 12:44 PM)nach_in Wrote:  why fossils? I give you... THE OSTRICH!!

[Image: ostrich_4113.jpg]

There are numerous Steamer Ducks and Teals, who's wings are body/weight proportioned but do not fly and of course, how can we forget our friends...
[Image: Penguins_walking_-Moltke_Harbour%2C_Sout...C_UK-8.jpg]
The Penguins.
The one with pink feet is a Gentoo flanked by his King buddies.
They're just chattin' & hangin' at the beach.

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21-05-2013, 02:20 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
DA:

I did read The Blind Watchmaker then stopped when I didn't find the empirical data I'm still seeking but rather, a lot of philosophy.

Please do not confuse dismissing me with "you don't understand... you're useless" with addressing the substance of my questions.

I'll restate. Assuming evolution is neither random nor purposeless and does exist (I agree with all those assertions), why can't we find fossils with fully formed wings that cannot fly or glide? The ostrich wings have purpose. They are not vestigial or ancillary in any way. Same with the penguins. Nor can we find penguin or ostrich fossils (the penguins could have been a late migration to colder climes, sure) or their antecedents that COULD fly.

In other words, seeing flightless winged SURVIVORS today does not fill in the (dare I say it?) missing gaps in the formation of wings to begin.
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21-05-2013, 03:20 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
(21-05-2013 02:20 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  DA:

I did read The Blind Watchmaker then stopped when I didn't find the empirical data I'm still seeking but rather, a lot of philosophy.

Please do not confuse dismissing me with "you don't understand... you're useless" with addressing the substance of my questions.

I'll restate. Assuming evolution is neither random nor purposeless and does exist (I agree with all those assertions), why can't we find fossils with fully formed wings that cannot fly or glide? The ostrich wings have purpose. They are not vestigial or ancillary in any way. Same with the penguins. Nor can we find penguin or ostrich fossils (the penguins could have been a late migration to colder climes, sure) or their antecedents that COULD fly.

In other words, seeing flightless winged SURVIVORS today does not fill in the (dare I say it?) missing gaps in the formation of wings to begin.

You won't find evolutionary steps without some kind of utility because such an specimen would die quite easily, and there wouldn't be enough specimens to fossilize.
You seem to be stuck with the idea of a mechanical function to every part of the body, as a wheel for a car, that's not how organisms work, a half formed wing is just an arm with feathers, and an arm is just a weird looking leg, there's no intent for those things, the organism just use them because they're there, and if it happens to help them survive, then when they reproduce the thing appears in their offspring, and continue mutating and at some point the offspring find a new use.

Look at the archaeopteryx, it looks like a retarded gay raptor, but the thing use his deformed arms to glide because it could. And now all the birds just mock from the sky to the extinct normal raptor bigots Tongue

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21-05-2013, 03:24 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
Hater's gonna hate


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(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-05-2013, 03:40 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
(20-05-2013 12:34 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I'm unsure where to begin. It's my intent to have a reasonable discussion and again it's ad homs and "look what pj does" not "okay, pj, I'll try to answer your questions."

Quote:you're aware that wings didn't evolve to be wings right? they evolved from arms, so "half a wing" is just a deformed arm.

And animals have forelimbs (arms) and other animals have wings. Which have the inbetween items?

Quote:Actually that's a point that creationists miss many times, not everything is at its peak of complexity just because we're in the present, many things that are "irreducibly complex" could've been even more complex before (a "reducibly" complexity) and had seen its complexity reduced since then.

I understand. When I say irreducible complexity, I'm not talking about structures now in existence but the incredible amount of steps that had to happen between changes in the past--changes not accompanied by any empirical evidence of slow, evolved, rather than rapid changes.

Again, it's not just wings that evolve to enable flight. But if it's only wings that need to evolve, there is a lack of evidence for the steps, 1,000, 100,000, or however many, between wingless and winged.

I think the thread is done because I've gotten back:

*You don't understand/you're willfully ignorant

*There are only a few fossils preserved, so even though we have millions of wingless and millions of winged fossils, and none between the two... "just so"

*Etc.

I'm done because you refuse to read what you asked for. You are dishonest. Good-bye.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-05-2013, 03:57 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
OK, Please Jesus, I will not break you coccyx I checked it out and you are correct various muscles are attached and it continues to preform a function. Therefore by your self definition it is not a vestigial part of the human, even if any thinking person knows it is.

I might ask now something else. How did noah get all that shit onto the ark. I know of specific butterflies which rely on specific plants for their existence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_blue_butterfly

This species is not unique to my home region in that there are multiple examples world wide. I suspect for example that there exist in the Alps various species that are unique to that area. Actually it is interesting to note that world wide alpine species seem to be similar.

Now how did noah get all that shit on the arc. The butterflies that rely on a few plants and of course the plants. The various humming birds, one of which greeted me moments ago.

I will accept the argument of a theist that evolution was directed by the Flying Spaghetti Monster. To argue that evolution did not occur is an argument of an uniformed person.
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21-05-2013, 05:33 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
More importantly, how did Noah get the shit OFF the ark?! I mean, 40 days' worth, yikes! Somebody had to shovel 24/7...

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21-05-2013, 06:16 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
(21-05-2013 05:33 PM)cjs Wrote:  More importantly, how did Noah get the shit OFF the ark?! I mean, 40 days' worth, yikes! Somebody had to shovel 24/7...
shhhh. I am sure noah had one of those magic brooms like Mickey did in fantasia. remember it was 40 days of rain but they were on the ark much much longer. Its all very plausible.
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