Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
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25-05-2013, 04:52 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
The evolution of blood clotting is not difficult at all.
He just spouts crap he's heard from that quack, Michael Behe.
http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/D...tting.html

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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28-05-2013, 02:31 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
I came up with that one apart from Dr. Behe, actually. I also noticed bombardier beetles have items that come together to make a substance offensive to other creatures, catalyzed into motion by other substances, held in check in their own systems by other substances, etc., etc. You make it sound like Behe invented irreducible complexity when it's an argument about as old as Plato (the Greek, not Dana Plato).

Of course, the Miller and Levine solution clearly befits Occam's razor as the simplest possible explanation, and with the most explanatory power (and empirical observation, not, since it's 100% conjectural) as to how the following evolved to be produced, and at the right locations in complex tissues, and in the right amounts, and under the right ambient condition fast enough to clot some creature before it dies of blood loss:

*a1-antitrypsin
*antithrombin
*plasminogen

QUOTE: "In short, the key to understanding the evolution of blood clotting is to appreciate that the current system did not evolve all at once. Like all biochemical systems, it evolved from genes and proteins that originally served different purposes. The powerful opportunistic pressures of natural selection progressively recruited one gene duplication after another, gradually fashioning a system in which high efficiences of controlled blood clotting made the modern vertebrate circulatory system possible."

Uh-huh. There you have it. There were other purposes for EVERY ASPECT of blood clotting systems, and they were ALWAYS serviceable and assisted the survivability rates of the creatures who carried them over every generation and stage of clotting evolution. ALWAYS. But I have VESTIGIAL parts (as do many creatures) that have NO purposes unlike "pre-blood clotting parts". Uh-huh.
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28-05-2013, 03:08 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
For plants to become animals?. . . Are you fucking kidding? Sometimes evolution creates a moron!
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28-05-2013, 04:43 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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29-05-2013, 12:39 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
Oy vey, you're all misunderstanding greatly. If you draw boundaries around plants becoming animals and vice versa, since ALL that would require is many small changes over much time, where else will you draw a line?

I have a line I've drawn that makes sense based on complexity and time.
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29-05-2013, 12:42 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
Have you read "why evolution is true" or something similar? If not I refuse to respond to your above post. You asked for recommendations, we gave them, and you continue to make silly statements. Either you haven't read the books or you read them with such a jaded and biased view that you got nothing from their content.
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29-05-2013, 01:21 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
(28-05-2013 02:31 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I came up with that one apart from Dr. Behe, actually. I also noticed bombardier beetles have items that come together to make a substance offensive to other creatures, catalyzed into motion by other substances, held in check in their own systems by other substances, etc., etc. You make it sound like Behe invented irreducible complexity when it's an argument about as old as Plato (the Greek, not Dana Plato).

Of course, the Miller and Levine solution clearly befits Occam's razor as the simplest possible explanation, and with the most explanatory power (and empirical observation, not, since it's 100% conjectural) as to how the following evolved to be produced, and at the right locations in complex tissues, and in the right amounts, and under the right ambient condition fast enough to clot some creature before it dies of blood loss:

*a1-antitrypsin
*antithrombin
*plasminogen

QUOTE: "In short, the key to understanding the evolution of blood clotting is to appreciate that the current system did not evolve all at once. Like all biochemical systems, it evolved from genes and proteins that originally served different purposes. The powerful opportunistic pressures of natural selection progressively recruited one gene duplication after another, gradually fashioning a system in which high efficiences of controlled blood clotting made the modern vertebrate circulatory system possible."

Uh-huh. There you have it. There were other purposes for EVERY ASPECT of blood clotting systems, and they were ALWAYS serviceable and assisted the survivability rates of the creatures who carried them over every generation and stage of clotting evolution. ALWAYS. But I have VESTIGIAL parts (as do many creatures) that have NO purposes unlike "pre-blood clotting parts". Uh-huh.

The fact that you have vestigial parts proves nothing. You really need a Biology course. They had purposes in earlier times, in many cases. Which ones are you talking about. Certainly not the appendix I hope.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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29-05-2013, 05:13 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
PleaseJesus: No offence, but it is clear that you have no idea about the very basics of evolution. I don't know alot about it, myself. High school graduate. But, I have spent many hours reading and watching. I watched the entire Joseph Campbell interview with Bill Moyers. "The Power of Myth" Facinating! I watched it over and over. Read some of Josephs books as well. Hoped to find god there. Just saying this: If you believie in your god, that is fine and good. But if you are going to bring him to those of us who have stuidied, thought deeply about the subject . . . and you haven't done any homework . . . we will out you in a second! You are not dealing with fools, here. Again, no offence. But you appear foolish. Second grade math students can't teach Stepen Hawkings physics. Do your homework!
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29-05-2013, 05:35 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
Agreed, Ameron. I've read Jerry Coyne's book Why Evolution Is True twice because it was not easy for me to grasp. I recommended the book to PJ, but 19 pages later, he/she evidently refuses to read it though he/she asked for book recommendations.
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29-05-2013, 05:40 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
PleaseJesus: This just popped into my head. Again, no offence intended: Just curious. How many books would you guess that you have read? Any kind of book. I can't give you numbers for myself, but my bookshelves are full! I haven't read them all. Some are just sitting there. I may meet them someday, I may not. But I am sure that I have read hundreds! If I included comic books and magazines, newspapers, we would be talking thousands! Let me be frank, here. You seem to see yourself as a teacher. Are you really qualified to teach? What do you know? . . . How many books have you read?
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