Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
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04-06-2013, 01:45 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
(04-06-2013 01:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:PleaseJesus: You present yourself as some kind of scholar, yet you ask questions like this: "Great point. Mustard greens are indeed significantly different than broccoli, cauliflower, etc. But they are still plants, reproducing after their own kind. What kind of dramatic genetic engineering would be required for plants to become animals?" Have you read your own question? Your ultimate question seems to be: "What kind of genetic engineering would be required for mustard greens to become animals?" The answer is: We don't know. As a layman, I don't know how much science has been done to turn plants into animals. But I am baffled as to what this has to do with evolution or religion?

You're just not getting it folks. Two things:

1. My questions aren't because I misunderstand the science and philosophy of evolution. They're geared to get you to think. So let me rephrase to help you. If plants can never become animals or vice versa because the evolutionary gap is too great, why can wingless animals become winged ones or land animals become sea life or vice versa? After all, aren't the needed organs, subroutines and "programming" almost as vast?

2. Might as well wait for now. Sigh.

You seem to think you have an understanding of evolution, but your statements and questions betray the shallowness of your knowledge and comprehension.

Your statements are truly idiotic.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-06-2013, 01:54 PM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2013 05:15 PM by kim.)
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
(04-06-2013 01:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  You're just not getting it folks. Two things:

1. My questions aren't because I misunderstand the science and philosophy of evolution. They're geared to get you to think.

Rolleyes Well, now you've stated it; proof of your disingenuousness.

You started this thread asking people for book suggestions and then when they provide you with several, you deliberately do not read any. That is not simply willful ignorance, it is deliberate ignorance.

It is very obvious - yes, by your questions, as well as your answers to questions - that you have no understanding of the concept of evolution. No one here cares about the twisted and convoluted way you obviously think about science... and most things, it would seem. Your god glasses are simply not everyone's thing; get over it.

If you are sad about not understanding evolution and have made your mind up not to learn about it, then you will have to be satisfied with the limits you have placed upon yourself.

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04-06-2013, 05:05 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
You're just not getting it folks. Two things:

1.You're just not getting it folks. Two things:

1. My questions aren't because I misunderstand the science and philosophy of evolution. They're geared to get you to think. So let me rephrase to help you. If plants can never become animals or vice versa because the evolutionary gap is too great, why can wingless animals become winged ones or land animals become sea life or vice versa? After all, aren't the needed organs, subroutines and "programming" almost as vast?

2. Might as well wait for now. Sigh. They're geared to get you to think. So let me rephrase to help you. If plants can never become animals or vice versa because the evolutionary gap is too great, why can wingless animals become winged ones or land animals become sea life or vice versa? After all, aren't the needed organs, subroutines and "programming" almost as vast?

2. Might as well wait for now. Sigh.

K. (Again, high school graduate, here) "My questions aren't because I misunderstand the science and philosophy of evolution." First: Evolution is not a philosophy, it is a scientific discipline. Second: If you look at the structure of a flightless animals and an animals which can fly, (Both animals), you will see that each have appendages which are arm like. There are even finger like appendages at the end of a bird's wings. Most animals are similar, in many ways, to humans. Birds stand on two feet, but they fly. Dogs have what could be considered arms and legs. But all touch the ground. Why is that? It's because of competition and predation. Also because of climate. I you stand a duck up, you will see that it has two arms and two feet. They don't look like arms and feet to you and me, but anatomically, they are. Plants also have many similarities. Roots, stems, leaves. So, what about snakes? Snakes have no appendages! Well, they have muscles. Like all animals. And can flex those muscles. Therefore they move. There's really no reason for you to come here for answers for your silly questions. Google it! When you find a question that I can't find an answer to, with Google, in five seconds, I will kiss your ass!
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05-06-2013, 03:38 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
Let me put it this way, PJ, you're denying evolution on the basis that it makes specific testable predictions. It predicts that animals won't become plants and vice versa. It predicts no mammal will ever have feathers and no non-mammal will ever have fur (or at least not the same toe). It predicts the order of fossils in rock strata. It predicts vestigial organs, traits, and DNA fragments based on an animal's place in the tree of life. It predicts intermediate fossils between related species and where to find them in the geology. It predicts the traits of newly discovered bacterial and viral infections.

You laugh at these predictions because you don't quite understand and things don't quite make sense to you and they don't fit with your narrow reading if God's word. You laugh because it doesn't make sense to you and you think that by asking the right questions others will begin to see the same flaws you see.

Except those predictions are how science confirms hypotheses. They are how we have confirmed evolution. It there are so many ways you could disprove or significantly modify the theory, so many predictions that must hold true for evolution to hold true, and it does. Can you say the same for your model? Can you list the predictions it makes that if false would prove your model false? Can you list the original kinds and describe some of their properties? Can you make predictions that disagree with evolution and that we can test? So far all I have seen are craton models that have been trimmed to fit the predictions of evolution, because those are the only predictions that hold true.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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05-06-2013, 03:59 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
On a lighter note:



Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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06-06-2013, 12:11 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
Quote:Let me put it this way, PJ, you're denying evolution on the basis that it makes specific testable predictions. It predicts that animals won't become plants and vice versa. It predicts no mammal will ever have feathers and no non-mammal will ever have fur (or at least not the same toe). It predicts the order of fossils in rock strata. It predicts vestigial organs, traits, and DNA fragments based on an animal's place in the tree of life. It predicts intermediate fossils between related species and where to find them in the geology. It predicts the traits of newly discovered bacterial and viral infections.

You laugh at these predictions because you don't quite understand and things don't quite make sense to you and they don't fit with your narrow reading if God's word. You laugh because it doesn't make sense to you and you think that by asking the right questions others will begin to see the same flaws you see.

Except those predictions are how science confirms hypotheses. They are how we have confirmed evolution. It there are so many ways you could disprove or significantly modify the theory, so many predictions that must hold true for evolution to hold true, and it does. Can you say the same for your model? Can you list the predictions it makes that if false would prove your model false? Can you list the original kinds and describe some of their properties? Can you make predictions that disagree with evolution and that we can test? So far all I have seen are craton models that have been trimmed to fit the predictions of evolution, because those are the only predictions that hold true.

Your post was very interesting.

What about it specifically has to do with the irreducible complexity of macro-changes and abiogenesis?

And we've already agreed (or some of us have) regarding there are no realistic ways to falsify Evolution (one would to prove Creation), which proves its unfalsifiability and the fact that it's just so many just so stories...
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06-06-2013, 12:38 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
PJ, scientists do not know the "why" of a lot of things. Neither does culture, why can't I piss off the end of my porch in the daylight for example, no one should be troubled by that and they should realize I am saving precious water.

I do know without equivocation that some supreme thingy had nothing to do with unknowns. It is what is unknown.

Marcro-changes are relatively explainable even if the evidence is limited. Your continued return to that theme only proves you have what you think is a point even if it is invalid.

Abiogenesis, who the fuck cares, how about "shit happens" not always good.
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06-06-2013, 12:59 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
If I may add something. The why question is interesting from a philosophical viewpoint but meaningless from a scientific viewpoint.

Why admits uncertainty, an uncertainty that humans have been dealing with for millennium. An uncertainty that they have often turned to gods to answer.

Accepting uncertainty is to free one from the need of god or god like beings. It frees one to contemplate and learn about things knowing some things will be unknown.

Finding difficulty with uncertainty forces many into the hands of the soothsayers, mystics, charlatans and christian leaders.

Heisenberg where are you when we need you.
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06-06-2013, 01:28 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
Hasn't any one thought of giving PJ a Kamasutra book, so that he can please Jesus better?

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06-06-2013, 01:33 PM
RE: Book Recommendation for PleaseJesus
I mean, he can't just sit there and kiss ass all day and expect a long lasting relationship?

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